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  1. #141
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    I realize that I may come across a little aggresive with the following post, but in no way am I trying to offend you.

    You know, if you're really as sure as you seem to be about your type, why are you still looking for feedback? It seems to me that you're unwilling to budge on your preformed conclusion (that you must be some kind of NT), and that's why I deleted my second post in your other forum last night - I probably deleted it before you saw it. The impression I'm getting from you is that you aren't really interested in hearing an answer other than some variety of NT (though you claim to be open to debating on it). I would hazard a guess to say that many forum members (including myself) have simply given up trying to debate w/you because you seem to be so unopen to - even dismissive of - what they've got to say.

    Also, I don't understand why you aren't taking time to do some serious research on the cognitive functions yourself, 'cause I'd assume that the majority of members on this forum don't have the time to spoon-feed you the information you need. You have all the resources you need on the Internet. Granted, there's a lot of downright awful material on the interwebs as well - which is why you should exercise prudence when you pick your resources.

    Again, I'm just being frank with you and am not looking to offend. I'm sorry if I did, though.
    I had thought I had typed myself correctly, and the original point of the thread was to tell people how I am atypical and use that information to help type other people. It wasn't to ask people to try to type me. But the fact was that I wanted to know if people thought I was another type because I do value being open minded. And people didn't seem to be that open minded when they were giving their opinions. I wanted evidence to the contrary, and people couldn't sufficiently explain themselves. I'm open to people convincing me I am INFP; but I'm not asking you to. I'm fine with my decision. The only reason I go on about this is that there are some people who are convinced I have made the wrong decision and that annoys them; and so I am valuing their opinion by allowing them to explain themselves. Which it's been hard to get people to do. And I think I know the cognitive functions well; it's just that apparently people think I don't know what Ti and Fi means because they think I have them mixed up. Do you understand? I'm trying to be openminded, but the only way I can be convinced is with an actual argument backed up by showing me that my argument is invalid.

  2. #142
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I had thought I had typed myself correctly, and the original point of the thread was to tell people how I am atypical and use that information to help type other people. It wasn't to ask people to try to type me.
    Well, then I don't think you made your intentions clear enough - with both of your threads. I re-read the OP/first post of both, and neither seemed to reveal the intentions you supposedly had in creating them. You even had a poll asking people which type they think you are in one of them.

    But the fact was that I wanted to know if people thought I was another type because I do value being open minded.
    I think I see Fi right there.

    And people didn't seem to be that open minded when they were giving their opinions.
    I don't understand this statement. You asked for their opinion. They gave you honest answers (most of which you probably didn't like).

    I wanted evidence to the contrary, and people couldn't sufficiently explain themselves. I'm open to people convincing me I am INFP; but I'm not asking you to. I'm fine with my decision. The only reason I go on about this is that there are some people who are convinced I have made the wrong decision and that annoys them; and so I am valuing their opinion by allowing them to explain themselves. Which it's been hard to get people to do.
    Are you trying to tell me that the burden of proof is on the rest of us? To prove you wrong?
    I don't know. I'd say it's on you, mate. You aren't convincing anyone here unless you prove to us that you are indeed whatever type you think you are.

    And I think I know the cognitive functions well; it's just that apparently people think I don't know what Ti and Fi means because they think I have them mixed up. Do you understand? I'm trying to be openminded, but the only way I can be convinced is with an actual argument backed up by showing me that my argument is invalid.
    In that case, do me a favor and collect your arguments into one coherent post. I don't want to waste time skimming through buttloads of posts just to prove you wrong. I have better things to spend time on, and so does everyone else, I think.

    So what type do you think you are at this point? Still INTP?

    Excuse me for being blunt: I've been reading over both of your threads, and now I'm almost 100% sure you are not an INTP. You don't sound like one, nor do you argue like one. I really didn't want to say this, but I can see so many flaws in your reasonings that I don't even feel like putting my time into listing all of them for you.

    Anyhow, if you aren't willing to take up your part of the "debate," I see no point in engaging you any futher.
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  3. #143
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Srsly, the name "greenfairy" with that avatar can mean at most a couple of things, but normally usually and generally, it REEKS of INFP. I can smell it from here. And this sort of making stuff up that you do in your process also is INFP in a very big way. Take a spare handful of facts and start pushing them into some construct that bears little relationship to reality and going out the front door and then all around the universe in the most winding possible path to get to your own back yard kind of thinking. You call that Thinking, and I see how you could get that -- but that is not NT Thinking, not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. Your process makes the NTs snort in derision -- you can see how they are responding to you. And you are not responding in kind, either. So this is another hint -- if the people of the type you claim do not embrace you, you might be mistyping yourself. The NTs are rejecting you out of hand, without equivocation.

    (Come to the NFs, my child. We are your people. You are beautiful. Here is a flower for your hair.)

    I understand what you're saying -- you need pushback so you can grasp the boundaries; if no one pushes back for you, you just keep sort of drifting around and can't get the shape of the thing. But entering that kind of dialog is work and begins to be tedious after you've done it a million times, especially if the person is tending to be stubborn. So don't be surprised if you get some curt responses occasionally.

    Do your reading. Sit back and observe, too. Watch how other people play out their types and enneagrams. See who you develop kinship with. Etc. (which I'm sure you are doing; just trying to give helpful suggestions)
    Last edited by Tiltyred; 08-22-2012 at 12:46 PM. Reason: to emphasize a point

  4. #144
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    The premise of this thread is ridiculous, as in, 'people owe it to me to prove me wrong'. As if people have the time, energy and desire to waste more on the delusional, beyond the time and energy they've already wasted.

    Analogous would be trying to prove to a paranoid schizophrenic, that they're a paranoid schizophrenic. Good luck with that!

  5. #145
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    A lot of people seem pretty pissed off at the OP for these long rants about why or why not INFP or INTP or even INTJ is the right type yet all of the comments are continuing which is kind of amusing since you people claim to not care about the OP's type yet you keep on smashing in your opinions.

  6. #146
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    I just go off vibes and you vibe infp. Don't check yourself against saturned she's an enfp type of Infp.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #147
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    A lot of people seem pretty pissed off at the OP for these long rants about why or why not INFP or INTP or even INTJ is the right type yet all of the comments are continuing which is kind of amusing since you people claim to not care about the OP's type yet you keep on smashing in your opinions.
    Awww..... Aren't you gettin' enough lovin'?
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  8. #148
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    If I could just agree with everyone so they wouldn't be annoyed anymore, I'd probably do it. But I can't because I don't. I might in the future, but it takes a lot of in depth comments about specific cognitive functions and function order and specifically how they apply to me and why my characteristics can't be explained by other CF's. And if people don't want to go to all that trouble, I'm not going to change my mind. If people are annoyed enough, that's what they have to do. Debate with me about my type and win. I am listening. And I am starting to see how I could be INFP, I'm just not there yet.
    All we have to go on are your posts, and people like andante have pain-stakingly (if aggressively) picked them apart to show where it looks like you are preferring one cog func over another. You refuse to listen to anyone. At this point people are getting a bit bored with the attention-whoring. Most newbs do not try to monopolise forum resources in the way you have. I mentioned before how inconsiderate I thought you were being. Not just with all the egocentric posting but other behaviours too (like your PM to me out of the blue, telling me to do something for you without even introducing yourself). When someone like me complains about your netiquette, you gotta know you reeaally fucked up.
    You have explained that you have poor social skills, are perhaps a bit autistic - such things make typing harder, and, honestly, moot.
    There's something passive aggressive about the way you keep needling people for responses, then not listening to anything they tell you. Then play the victim by starting threads like this one to complain, and elicit more attention.

    When I pointed out to you that Ti did not appear to be a strength, you answered that you sucked at all the other functions too, but somehow the net result gave you moments of greatness. How does one argue with that?

    I accept that you can be INTP and suck at Ti. I dont believe preference = strength. I do not think you are, because I mostly identify other INTPs by a kind of gut recognition I get when I read their posts. I dont get that with you. Nada. I'm not saying this is a watertight case, nothing in typology is.

    To reiterate, most people don't care how you type yourself. It's the other stuff that pisses people off. But I'm fairly certain, given your threads, you dont much care about pissing people off.

    If you still feel you're INTP, call yourself that. Honestly, no one cares.
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  9. #149
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    Well, then I don't think you made your intentions clear enough - with both of your threads. I re-read the OP/first post of both, and neither seemed to reveal the intentions you supposedly had in creating them. You even had a poll asking people which type they think you are in one of them.
    No, which is why I took the time to correct it in a separate post on the thread, and a few other times. I should probably have edited the OP to say it explicitly.


    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    I think I see Fi right there.
    Alright, that's an argument. Which would be valid if INFP's value being open minded more than most other types. Or if INTX's don't particularly value being openminded. And we should look at the purpose and the reasoning behind the value as well; I see it as I can't possibly reach knowledge of objective truth if I don't weigh my opinions against other people's. Which could either look at Ti searching for truth through Ne (INTP), Ni synthesizing both Te and Fi (INTJ), Fi seeing other viewpoints and being able to see the value in them through understanding of objectivity and then using Te for confirmation (INFP), or even Fe+Ti synthesized by Ni in INFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    I don't understand this statement. You asked for their opinion. They gave you honest answers (most of which you probably didn't like).
    Whether or not I liked them is not the point. The ones which were the most emphatic didn't contain very much actual information and reasoning.



    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    Are you trying to tell me that the burden of proof is on the rest of us? To prove you wrong?
    I don't know. I'd say it's on you, mate. You aren't convincing anyone here unless you prove to us that you are indeed whatever type you think you are.
    Well yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I'm not the one who has a problem with me supposedly being mistyped. If you do, and you think I'm wrong, and I should change my mind, then you are the one starting the debate and the burden of proof is on you.


    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    In that case, do me a favor and collect your arguments into one coherent post. I don't want to waste time skimming through buttloads of posts just to prove you wrong. I have better things to spend time on, and so does everyone else, I think.
    Ok, I'll try to do that. I figured there was so much information it would be impossible. (Fi seeing all the subjective nuances of my personality?) But if I am a type I should be able to.

    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    Excuse me for being blunt: I've been reading over both of your threads, and now I'm almost 100% sure you are not an INTP. You don't sound like one, nor do you argue like one. I really didn't want to say this, but I can see so many flaws in your reasonings that I don't even feel like putting my time into listing all of them for you.

    Anyhow, if you aren't willing to take up your part of the "debate," I see no point in engaging you any futher.
    Ok, so I don't sound like INTP or argue like one, and I have flaws in my reasonings. That may be. Mind telling me the reasons behind these statements? So I can agree with you? I'm willing to if you can provide me with something to agree with. How do INTP's argue in your experience? How do they sound? And can you give me one example of a flaw in my reasoning so I can attempt to correct it? I don't mind you giving me your opinion. I appreciate it. It's just that even if I may not excel at logic all the time that's how my mind attempts to work, so I need all the puzzle pieces to fit before I can firmly establish the puzzle in my mind as fact. Which means I need to know specifically how INFP contrasts with INTP in the cases you pointed out.

  10. #150
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Srsly, the name "greenfairy" with that avatar can mean at most a couple of things, but normally usually and generally, it REEKS of INFP. I can smell it from here. And this sort of making stuff up that you do in your process also is INFP in a very big way. Take a spare handful of facts and start pushing them into some construct that bears little relationship to reality and going out the front door and then all around the universe in the most winding possible path to get to your own back yard kind of thinking. You call that Thinking, and I see how you could get that -- but that is not NT Thinking, not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. Your process makes the NTs snort in derision -- you can see how they are responding to you. And you are not responding in kind, either. So this is another hint -- if the people of the type you claim do not embrace you, you might be mistyping yourself. The NTs are rejecting you out of hand, without equivocation.

    (Come to the NFs, my child. We are your people. You are beautiful. Here is a flower for your hair.)

    I understand what you're saying -- you need pushback so you can grasp the boundaries; if no one pushes back for you, you just keep sort of drifting around and can't get the shape of the thing. But entering that kind of dialog is work and begins to be tedious after you've done it a million times, especially if the person is tending to be stubborn. So don't be surprised if you get some curt responses occasionally.

    Do your reading. Sit back and observe, too. Watch how other people play out their types and enneagrams. See who you develop kinship with. Etc. (which I'm sure you are doing; just trying to give helpful suggestions)
    Thanks. So in the first paragraph you are saying my thoughts tend to meander and grab onto a bunch of seemingly unrelated things before they form a conclusion. Is that what Fi or inferior Te does? I figured it was the N function. But I can see how T would be more linear, and how my thoughts aren't really linear. That's a good point. I'm not really sure what you mean by the bolded.

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