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  1. #121
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It does sound like an interesting thread.

    Any "mystic" side I have involves more a sense of archetypes and patterns, but I don't really credit them any special power in a tangible sense -- it's all about what they can evoke collectively. (Or is that all mysticism is? Maybe we need to even clarify what is meant by mysticism.)
    This is a large part of my mysticism. I use patterns and archetypes a lot. It also has to do with "just knowing" things, much like what I've read about Ni. It's about intuitive knowledge, and translating subjective experience into a system of underlying patterns of reality. I use my intuitive sense as an extra sense, to give me information about reality which I then have to process. I have information from the analytical side of reality, of scientific data, facts, and reasoning, and then I have information which comes from more unconscious sources; I integrate all of this into a framework which fully contains the subjective within the objective. Reading about Ti logical frameworks, they appear to fit my internal world. Maybe not? But the concepts apply. I use a logical process to integrate all the information.

  2. #122
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    +1. I might even do one, with audio only. Although...laziness...
    If it makes it any better, we'll take the laziness into account in our analysis.
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  3. #123
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I went through this when I first entered type, because for one thing, I was dealing with a so-called "expert" who tended to go around saying a lot of people were "mistyped", and the tack was always to push people who thought they were T's to F, and from TiFe to FiTe. Even if you didn't understand the theory quick enough, you must be a slow-witted FP (in contrast to quickwitted TP's), and if you did not get the social vibe fast enough, you were a self-absorbed FP as opposed to a selfless FJ); and "liking" a particular type was even tossed out there at me as "Fi" as well.
    And when I first arrived here, this sort of thinking seemed to be prevalent. Look at the early "Mistyped Members" thread and you can see some of this.

    But "liking" is not a product of Fi; it's a product of the ego. Fi would be more attention to things you like, and determining what is wholesome, and using thi sense to make judgments.

    Oversimplifications like this are why these misunderstandings occur.

    OK, that's good information regarding the early climate of the forum I witnessed and described, and the problem we're discussing. (I had never even heard of this "iNtuitive Central" before, and assumed it was perhaps the influence of the expert I mentioned).

    @greenfairy, what I find another thing that seems to blur T/F for INP's is the Interaction Style, and particularly that it embodies two possible temperaments, one classic one, and another that is newly discovered.

    The typical INTP would fit this corresponding temperament in this other system:
    http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...-inclusion.htm

    While INFP (And the ISF's who are also the same Interaction Style) might fit:
    http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...-inclusion.htm

    This last one is the new one, recognized only in that system. (So the ISF's basically fit "Phlegmatic" by default, as that was the closest thing in four temperament systems).

    But what I find, beginning in my own experience, and some others I've discussed this with, such as @Jennifer and @SuchIrony, is that when an INTP falls into that latter temperament, they take on some traits that have become associated with INFP and the ISF's, or even Fe in general. The biggest thing is that Supines have a higher people-focus and need for inclusion by others, which we associate with F, where Phlegmatics are really more moderate and can “take 'em or leave'em”, which would better fit the traditional INTP interaction.
    Supine INTP's thus end up with T/F uncertainty, thinking they might be F, but eventually settling on T.
    But this based more on traits; some of them overgeneralized, (like the "liking" things or "emotions" stuff) than functions, so they tend to strongly identify with Ti, but have these traits that have become associated with Fi, (somewhat largely mistakenly, but then other factors such as "right-brain alternatives" or shadow dynamics can explain things too).
    On the flipside, you have @OrangeAppled, who's an INFP Phlegmatic, and also had the same T/F uncertainty, but went the other way, from T to F.

    So that you could look into as well.
    Awesome perspective! I will look into these links.

  4. #124
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I was under the impression that our experience of the world is taken in via s/n and t/f is how we make judgements about those experiences meaning.
    Well right, that's what I'm saying. Si is the basis, and making judgments or attaching rationality could be seen as kind of the same thing. Some people avoid making judgments.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Awesome post. This has helped me understand Fi a lot better. Thanks! The descriptions I read are really vague and confusing, so of course it's hard to see how they could apply to me. (I mean, what are "feeling tones? I don't think in poetry.)

    I can see how I value things a lot. But that's a lot different from making value judgments, which I try to avoid. This kind of thinking, of making value judgments and establishing what is "good" and "bad" seems too much like fundamentalist Christianity; sin and redemption, good people versus evil, dualism, black and white, guilt, and the resulting destruction that happens when religious people get into other people's business. I have perceived this behavior and identified the thinking and feeling patterns I think are responsible, and attempted to eradicate them in myself.

    So the words "good" and "bad" have taken on loaded connotations for me, and I tend to reject them, influencing my tests toward the thinking side. Is this T behavior, or simply Fi valuing the rejection of value judgment? I don't know. Kind of paradoxical. I don't think human valuation has anything to do with "what is," and I prefer to focus on objective reality. But I have to operate in my subjective world, because I am limited by a physical body. And it adds some fun to life.

    I do evaluate whether I like and dislike things, but so does everyone. I don't really understand yet the difference between Fi likes and dislikes and everyone else's. I've found that my preferences are useful in navigating my life successfully. Most of the time it's just to decide what will make me happy, but often they unconsciously affect me intuitively. I let my intuition tell me what I should be around or avoid. I started a thread about this, to see whether the intuition I am describing is Ni or Fi, and most people said Ni. If it's actually Fi, I guess I use it a lot.

    So this is my subjective experience plus my thoughts on how it relates to typology.
    i get what you're saying...but there are a lot of fi users who are agnostic or atheist.

    having a strong sense of right and wrong does not come from a book tho...it just doesn't...at least not for everybody
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  6. #126
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    Dang every thread the OP starts always transforms into smashing success and half the threads I have started hardly if at all even get any replies! People must be really interested in slamming their typing opinions into the heart and head of the OP because the last thing you need is a wannabe INTP ruining the show though I think the OP is INTx you people can think whatever other opinions you want!

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Dang every thread the OP starts always transforms into smashing success and half the threads I have started hardly if at all even get any replies! People must be really interested in slamming their typing opinions into the heart and head of the OP because the last thing you need is a wannabe INTP ruining the show though I think the OP is INTx you people can think whatever other opinions you want!
    I think it just comes down to how widespread the interest of the thread is as oppose to people wanting to prove the OP wrong.

  8. #128
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Dang every thread the OP starts always transforms into smashing success and half the threads I have started hardly if at all even get any replies! People must be really interested in slamming their typing opinions into the heart and head of the OP because the last thing you need is a wannabe INTP ruining the show though I think the OP is INTx you people can think whatever other opinions you want!
    I usually don't have any response to make to your threads, there usually isn't any compelling question I need to eke out a response to.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #129
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    It's very rarely personal raptor. It's just about the topic. Sometimes no one cares about my random thinking out loud questions either.

    It just means I'm the only one interested in that. That's okay. Theres a lot of topics people post that I'm uninterested in.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Dang every thread the OP starts always transforms into smashing success and half the threads I have started hardly if at all even get any replies! People must be really interested in slamming their typing opinions into the heart and head of the OP because the last thing you need is a wannabe INTP ruining the show though I think the OP is INTx you people can think whatever other opinions you want!
    *Questions your definition of "smashing success".*
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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