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  1. #101
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    To the bolded, I can definitely relate.

    I have posted on numerous occasions in my time on this forum whenever the mystic/psychic element of INFJ comes up, that I don't personally think it's mystical ... and I then try to explain how I believe my thought processes/perceptions to actually work. I have conceded that I can see how from the outside it might appear more nebulous and 'mystical', but I don't experience it as such at all, and I also don't gravitate towards mysticism.

    I recall the last time this came up with someone on here who typed as INFJ by the end of their stint on the forum, that the person got very ... almost angry when I stated I didn't believe Ni was truly mystical. This person seemed to attach to the idea of Ni *because* of the mystical component.
    TO really throw some kinks into things:

    I've had FeSi and SiFe friends who have been heavily into "mystic" things like tarot cards, fantasy books, unicorns, fairies and all that stuff, to the degree I originally just thought they were N (this would be a good 15 years ago), but the more I interacted with them, then their S roots became more clear, and it seemed far more likely that N was a tertiary or inferior based on standard type theory -- they tended to believe or be into the fantastical trappings of N but didn't really operate with pattern matching and other N connection qualities on a day to day basis. I've also seen these people drift into religious beliefs and possess a "magical" quality to the belief while being somewhat literalists in their approach to the holy texts.

    if it makes sense, I've seen SiFe's who were more into the trappings of mysticism but operated from a concrete basis, while NiFe's with a good sense of patterning weren't really into such things at all and could come off as more practical-minded.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #102
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    TO really throw some kinks into things:

    I've had FeSi and SiFe friends who have been heavily into "mystic" things like tarot cards, fantasy books, unicorns, fairies and all that stuff, to the degree I originally just thought they were N (this would be a good 15 years ago), but the more I interacted with them, then their S roots became more clear, and it seemed far more likely that N was a tertiary or inferior based on standard type theory -- they tended to believe or be into the fantastical trappings of N but didn't really operate with pattern matching and other N connection qualities on a day to day basis. I've also seen these people drift into religious beliefs and possess a "magical" quality to the belief while being somewhat literalists in their approach to the holy texts.

    if it makes sense, I've seen SiFe's who were more into the trappings of mysticism but operated from a concrete basis, while NiFe's with a good sense of patterning weren't really into such things at all and could come off as more practical-minded.
    It makes total sense; it's why I tend to have a kneejerk aversion to a lot of these stereotypes.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #103
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    It makes total sense; it's why I tend to have a kneejerk aversion to a lot of these stereotypes.
    Now I want to tie it together more into a sense of literalism/concreteness: The S's tended to explore those fantasy trappings as literal things, the N's tended to incorporate the patterning as symbolic rather than blatant, so the concepts were applied but not the actual literal magic thing itself.

    ... anyway, darnit, I need to save that for the new thread!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #104
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think other people sometimes CAN type you more accurately than you type yourself for a few reasons:

    1. They know the typology theory better. And if it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....then it still could be a baby swan, so let's look past the surface a bit & not jump to conclusions based on stereotypes.
    2. They are exceptionally good at understanding what makes people tick. They see the difference between baby swans & ducks more easily.
    3. While they have their own ego, they don't have YOUR ego, so they are not blinded by your ego & can see it. It's kind of like how other people see your own face more than you see it; it's yours, but it's not visible to you because you're functioning though it. You can go & look in the mirror of course, but sometimes that means seeing what you want to see (ie. you make a flattering face or whatever). A photo of you which is at odds with your perception of your own face can catch you off guard (often unpleasantly), and yet others are used to you seeing you look that way. So just as the image in your head of your own face can differ a bit from reality, so too can your perception of your personality & how it actually appears to others.

    That said, I think it's mostly futile to tell someone they are mistyped. I think discovering their type can be a process a person has to go through, and that process can mean mistyping for a bit. They won't be able to accept their ego if it's told to them anyway; they really have to uncover it themselves for the realization to set in & turn into something productive. The point of realizing your ego is so you can transcend it, but you're ego is sort of trying to protect itself from being destroyed. This is why even when people DO identify their actual type, they can deny the negative traits of it. This is because the ego doesn't want you to register your personality as basically being a flawed lens for the world. In identifying as the wrong type, you don't have to face your actual flaws because you don't have that types' flaws!

    Now, why other people can fail massively at typing others:

    1. They don't know typology well at all, but may think they do.
    2. They are bad at understanding how people work in general (ie. even if they grasp theory, they still have a hard time understanding different thought processes from their own).
    3. They have massive bias due to their own ego. So yes, their own ego gets in the way of seeing your ego accurately (it's like a mirror facing a mirror!). This is especially true when you don't fit their idea of themselves, yet you claim the same type; this threatens their ego.

    The last reason is why some types get more huffy when they suspect someone is mistyped as their type, or why some types simply try to out others more (:cough:NTs:cough: and :ahem:INFJs:ahem: ). The nature of their ego includes some aspect about being more rational or special than most people, etc. Again, you're threatening their ego because you don't fit their picture of themselves.

    This, however, is also why people can mistype - they gravitate towards types seen in a more positive light. It's been suggested by people that this may be a reason for the seemingly excessive amount of Ns online; N is perceived as more intelligent, special, etc, and so people type themselves based on that instead of the more neutral definitions which describe different egos without one being better or worse than the other.
    Very good post.

  5. #105
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    Ahhh sorry lady was going to say the same thing! My infp boyfriend occasionally tries to convince me and himself that he's an intp also... But he's just not and you don't seem to be either.

    It's all very infp to feel like you can't be catorigized and want to reject your fi because you don't like what you think it says about you.

    Sorry about the unsolicited opinions. :/
    Np. I don't have a problem with opinions.

  6. #106
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Yes, it's why I truly think a thread with video of the person taking the MBTI and giving their reasons would be extremely helpful for those who are unsure.
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  7. #107
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I don't care if you call your self an NT, but after talking to you you are not very logical. I not saying that you aren't smart enough to be logical only that you seem to rebel against the idea of logical principles and though process in favor of your subjective experiences and mysticism. In terms of MBTI that would make you an Fi user probably,simply because that is how the MBTI categorizes people who hold these types of views. I wish I were an ESFP or an INTJ but I can't just redefine what it means to be that type. If I did it would simply be renaming the INTP.
    Fair point. Although in the particular context of you talking to me, it was in a thread in which logical principles were largely irrelevant to the subject matter. If you were to talk to me about something else like whether "God" exists, or Phi, or nutrition, you might have a different impression.

  8. #108
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    The reason it seems to be NT types the most often has nothing to do with them thinking they're smarter or anything like that. It's because of their drive for truth and knowledge. It's right there in the description and it's seriously true about them.

    When a person says they're one type, but then they go on to do and say a TON of things that don't match up, it has these effects:

    It bugs the shit out of us because it doesn't make sense. It's not a personal thing at all, it (the situation) just doesn't make sense. We want and hunger for truth no matter what it is.

    It bothers us when falsities are perpetuated and grow thus kicking truth in the mouth even more. When a person who doesn't seem AT ALL like the type they claim, then go on to give advice constantly, then that's seen as false data being spouted off as true and it's not without a victim. That person is giving wrong information to someone who will believe it and then possibly repeat it and the amount of wrong that can grow and grow and grow makes us want to pull our f*cking hair out.

    It's horrendously worse if someone claims to be a type like ours and then does and says things that fly in the face of it thus basically spreading their wrong, but now it's about US in a way. And, while you can insult us all day long on our faults and get nowhere (we embrace truth and pretty much know our faults, so we shrug off someone pointing out the obvious), someone spreading untruths thus feeding stupidity/ignorance will bother us a lot more.

    As a NT, it's not personal at all. It's just noticing something we can't help but notice, and sometimes, it can get to us a bit.
    That makes sense.

    In regards to me, the advice I was giving based on my personality could actually be backed up by typology if anyone was interested, and often I listed typological reasons for my characteristics. If someone thinks this is incorrect, they are more than welcome to argue with me about it. And the advice I give which is not typology related doesn't really have to do with it.

    So that's my point of view, not getting angry, just saying. I appreciate the response.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Fair point. Although in the particular context of you talking to me, it was in a thread in which logical principles were largely irrelevant to the subject matter. If you were to talk to me about something else like whether "God" exists, or Phi, or nutrition, you might have a different impression.
    perhaps.

  10. #110
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Mysticism maybe but Fi dom is about subjective experience, right? Their inner sense of right and wrong.

    Is the winky sarcasm? I'm not much for body language as an NT.
    Subjective experience does not make up the majority of my reasoning, unless we are talking about our types or mysticism, which can't really be understood any other way. I'm going to post for awhile primarily on threads that have nothing to do with subjectivity, and see what people think. Not to prove anything, but because people have seen one side of me more than the other.

    For the record my inner sense of right and wrong has very little to do with anything I've posted.

    Edit: Well, I guess it does with this one, but it's not so much wrong as ineffective and not conducive to positive social interaction.

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