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  1. #21
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I think there is something funny about the isfp type. It seems like a catch all in typology systems.
    Who are we REALLY? O_O
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  2. #22
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Who are we REALLY? O_O
    You are like air. You can not be seen.

    You are like water. You can not be held.

    You are like the sun. You can not get too close.

  3. #23
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    ISFP is not a type, it is a combination of two types, ISTP and ESFP.

    About a year ago on this forum I stated that the ISFP was an odd type, in that it seemed to be some kind of exception to the rule. Of course my assertion was met with skepticism at that time, although it was only a hypothesis. But it should have been obvious all along.

    The following video isn't proof of my hypothesis, but it does give a good example. Notice how the "mood" of the video changes dramatically around the 3:04 point



    from "touchy-feely" to "fast cars." Since I have been married to an ISFP for almost 6 years, I can personally vouch for its accuracy.

    As I said a year ago, the "ISFP" is really a true ambivert, a type not allowed for by the MBTI or Jung. This is a personality with two dominant functions, but never with both featured prominently at the same time. They war with each other, they push and pull within the psyche of the "ISFP," producing a character having a single label.
    I think i wan't to know what you mean...but i don't actaully know...

    ISFP's don't seem like a type to me...but probably for other reasons...mostly because they're trying to be "a steady river" or whatever...not too up not too down...always wants a good time...not spending too much time on the dark emotional issues...

    that's just what i have seen...if you look up what keirsey says about them( i know it's not the exact same type or whatever) ISFP's are best described that way

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Who are we REALLY? O_O
    Dunno, I'm awsm now.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    You are like the sun.
    Yes.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  6. #26
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    i guess i get it infps have such a defined character compared to isfps and an isfps can seem like two incomplete personalities i personally think that se isnt too compatible with fi ,fi being so abstract ne can explore it naturally.but se is only hindered by it

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamAdams View Post
    i guess i get it infps have such a defined character compared to isfps and an isfps can seem like two incomplete personalities i personally think that se isnt too compatible with fi ,fi being so abstract ne can explore it naturally.but se is only hindered by it
    I'm open to possibilities. Sometimes it seems like there are true ISFPs and false ISFPs. If only there was a test that looked for type directly, instead of putting the letters or functions together. That is a huge mistake. The MBTI is the only test in the world that has to construct a type from pieces. If there was a real decent test out there, then maybe we could find people who do test as ISFP and people who test equally high as ESFP and ISTP but who act like ISFP in some ways.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy
    I think there is something funny about the isfp type. It seems like a catch all in typology systems.
    Possibly true... e6 is a bit of a catchall in the Enneagram. I don't know if it's really a problem with the system so much as certain types might better describe a wider range of individuals. E1 is much more specific in terms of its stressors, while e6 is more broad. Similarly Ni is very esoteric, and T is pretty regulated by logic, while F is more "available" in the sense that it's more malleable personally and doesn't have to adhere to logic, and Se seems fairly broad as well, able to account for a fair range of perceptive experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    The problem is that every time I have analyzed the "ISFP" in terms of functions, the personality is no longer captured.
    Couldn't that be more a problem with your analysis than a problem with the system?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I don't see any reason to say the same thing about those 3 types (not counting the etc). I've been considering the ISTJ as another possible candidate for elimination as a type, but that's the only other one. Because that's the only other type I've always considered an ambivert, a mixture of extraversion and introversion.
    I think it's interesting that you've chosen two IxSx types as "candidates", since the nature of S is to be more rooted in reality and the present while I obviously draws inwards, so I think it would be natural for them to display ambiversion, much as ENxxs tend to display ambiversion because while E draws us outwards, the nature of N is to be more rooted in mindspace and the timeless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It sucks to be a split type, but only if you hold the MBTI model sacred. It also sucks to be the type of person I've seen in real life: one who is in a quandary due to being split between two very different motives and having to decide between them.

    If there is more explanatory power, even healing power, in revealing this dichotomy, then I think that's more than fair.
    Being that the MBTI is an approximation to begin with, I'm not sure I understand the problem with being a "split type". Yes it's aggravating to not perfectly fit into a box, but none of us do. I definitely lean heavier to the Te and NFJ sides of ENFP, which is very different than some other ENFPs, ones who associate much more with ENTP and/or ESFP. More below --

    I'm not seeing this in terms of functions, that's just an assumption-based model for the MBTI. It assumes that the P or J in a type comes from the ordering of functions, for example, that the Ni/Te type has to pursue J-closure. It also breaks down where I see the ESFP/ISTP division in terms of Se/Ti, because the resulting type is more than a combination of its functions. IOW, ESFP is not equal to Se+Fi. Yet the ISFP comes across as a divided type, as if two dominant personalities, not functions, are present in the psyche.
    There's a special difference between P and J and J-dom and P-dom, though. INFP is P but J-dom; ENFP is P and P-dom, and I believe those differences are very well reflected in the types. INTJ seeks J closure in terms of Te, but not in terms of Ni, and they lead with Ni. ENTJ seeks closure in terms of Te and leads with Te. I don't understand what you mean

    Picking up from before, I suspect maybe this "divide" is more visible in ISFPs because outsiders tend to see their Se while only they are privy to Fi. You see more of their auxiliary, but it isn't their dominant driving force.

    I'm playing Devil's Advocate mostly for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate. If you're on to something, I assume it will come through despite my points to the contrary.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Possibly true... e6 is a bit of a catchall in the Enneagram. I don't know if it's really a problem with the system so much as certain types might better describe a wider range of individuals. E1 is much more specific in terms of its stressors, while e6 is more broad. Similarly Ni is very esoteric, and T is pretty regulated by logic, while F is more "available" in the sense that it's more malleable personally and doesn't have to adhere to logic, and Se seems fairly broad as well, able to account for a fair range of perceptive experiences.



    Couldn't that be more a problem with your analysis than a problem with the system?



    I think it's interesting that you've chosen two IxSx types as "candidates", since the nature of S is to be more rooted in reality and the present while I obviously draws inwards, so I think it would be natural for them to display ambiversion, much as ENxxs tend to display ambiversion because while E draws us outwards, the nature of N is to be more rooted in mindspace and the timeless.



    Being that the MBTI is an approximation to begin with, I'm not sure I understand the problem with being a "split type". Yes it's aggravating to not perfectly fit into a box, but none of us do. I definitely lean heavier to the Te and NFJ sides of ENFP, which is very different than some other ENFPs, ones who associate much more with ENTP and/or ESFP. More below --



    There's a special difference between P and J and J-dom and P-dom, though. INFP is P but J-dom; ENFP is P and P-dom, and I believe those differences are very well reflected in the types. INTJ seeks J closure in terms of Te, but not in terms of Ni, and they lead with Ni. ENTJ seeks closure in terms of Te and leads with Te. I don't understand what you mean

    Picking up from before, I suspect maybe this "divide" is more visible in ISFPs because outsiders tend to see their Se while only they are privy to Fi. You see more of their auxiliary, but it isn't their dominant driving force.

    I'm playing Devil's Advocate mostly for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate. If you're on to something, I assume it will come through despite my points to the contrary.
    Nothing anybody says makes a difference, including yours truly, without some kind of objective test. But none of the tests look for split types or tritypes. It is circular for the MBTI to assume that these types of personalities don't exist and then create a test that gives only a single type result. This is like playing with loaded dice or a stacked deck that deals you the hand you want.

    'Picking up from before, I suspect maybe this "divide" is more visible in ISFPs because outsiders tend to see their Se while only they are privy to Fi. You see more of their auxiliary, but it isn't their dominant driving force.' If anything, this division causes an extraverted type to appear introverted at times. And it causes the indecisive P aspect, because this personality has to stop and decide so often on which polar opposite ambition to pursue.

    The best system I know of for drawing out this division is the Styles of Inquiry, which lists cognitive traits on a scale that moves from one pole to another, from Synthesist, the most creative and fanciful, to Realist, the most hard-headed. It's possible to score as Synthesist-Realist or, similarly, Idealist-Realist. Jung has his opposites too, such as Ti and Fe or Si and Ne. But he assumes there is only one dominant function per personality.

    I use this forum for people-watching, and it's easier here because they reveal their types. For example, the woman who said she was an ESTJ-INFP, I think. We tried to boil her down to a single type, and I finally just declared that she is an ESTJ with INFP desires. She agreed with that. I also told her she sounded like an Idealist-Realist, and she replied that she has been told something like that before.

    The MBTI is a source of vast confusion for too many people to be an accurate typing system.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #30
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Couldn't that be more a problem with your analysis than a problem with the system?" I believe that observation comes before analysis, and I can only work with what I'm given. I have observed split types to exist, and my analysis concludes that the MBTI is not theoretically capable of capturing them.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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