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  1. #271
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    No, she's an Fi user, you cannot use your emotion like a tool to try to solve her emotions. Once you give her emotions a space to breathe, she will solve for them herself.

    Anyway, sorry to get a little exasperated, I don't know if you get how insulting it sounds to hear someone say "At times I have the feeling they [Fi users] never wanted to be older than 6 years."

    Hope everything works out for you and I hope your girlfriend's hand heals soon and well.
    Well if you think thats insulting than I hit the truth. And besides, when I cant use my emotion to solve an Fi users emotional problem, what can I then
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #272
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Fi people are a very difficult bunch of people, I must say, tho there are way more difficult people out there. At times I have the feeling they never wanted to be older than 6 years. But it is of key importance to never get worked up with them, but to staying cool and trieing to understand them. Then when you wait long enough they grant you access to their world for a moment and then you can place your accounts receivables. When you are lucky then, they will respect you.
    On the other side of the fence, I feel from time to time like Fe people miss the point of things, like they are so interested in skimming over feelings and meaning and going straight to behavior that they don't see what people really need. Like they're so interested in just fixing the external situation that they don't attend to people's internal states, which is what creates the external behavior in the first place. You are definitely correct about being patient and understanding to deal with Fi users; to deal with Fe users, we Fi/Te'rs have equally to find ways to explain that our needs typically reside more in emotional support and less in practical assistance, and we have to be more action-oriented ourselves to meet your needs.

    In the situation with your girlfriend, I suspect you're feeling like you're trying to help her as best as you can but it's not necessarily the kind of help that she needs. This divide happened/happens a lot between me and my ESFJ mom, who feels like she's helping when she for instance rushes off to get me something when I'm sick but all I really want is to have someone sitting with me while I'm hurting, and her leaving just makes me feel more unhappy and alone. Try paying more attention to your girlfriend's internal needs, like what PB said about just listening to her and giving her a hug. Try to be patient with her when she struggles. With Te, she will be perfectly competent at dealing with the practical difficulties of her injury (and, as you have witnessed, she is perfectly competent at asking you for help if and when she needs it). What she needs in terms of Fi is probably mostly emotional support.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Well if you think thats insulting than I hit the truth.
    I think it's more like that's a fairly belittling sentiment and doesn't really demonstrate much desire to understand how Fi users feel.

  3. #273
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Well if you think thats insulting than I hit the truth. And besides, when I cant use my emotion to solve an Fi users emotional problem, what can I then
    No, you are on the polar opposite of truth my friend.



    Just do what I said. Yes, I'm being directive here to cut to the chase. Just try it. Listen and do nothing but support, hold and hug with compassion. Be present. Don't for heaven's sake tell her to brighten up or cheer up or ANYTHING like that, or that you're working so hard for both of you blah blah blah.

    Please try it, you have nothing to lose, eh? Then, when she's finished saying what she needs to say, finishes crying or whatever say, "I love you, your feelings matter to me and how else can I help?"

    That is it my dear entropie!

    TRY IT!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #274
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    This thing about ‘fixing’ feelings- there a many ways this could be interpreted (and in threads like this I think it causes problems because everyone throws their own specific interpretation in the pot without clarifying and it causes misunderstanding- which is what I suspect @Eilonwy was trying to point out). When I say I feel compelled to ‘fix’, I mean if someone walks into the room and complains about something- I hear it as a directive, as a call to action, unless I’m familiar enough with the person to know they don’t want anything ‘fixed’ they just want to express some kind of feeling about it (?), or something, and then I have no problem with tuning it out. The autoplay thread is a good example of this- I don’t really understand the point of expressing a strong opinion and sticking to it without any expectation for that opinion to make some kind of difference in the external environment…..but according to other things said in that thread, apparently the purpose of expressing it is simply to express it?

    In the last relationship I was in, it became a sort of running joke- this person would vent and I’d draw a blank expression and say “there, there” in a monotone voice while patting their back…..it was like a reminder that I had absolutely no idea what they were expecting to hear, all I knew is that my usual “well you could try this” or “maybe this person just wanted [points out other possible viewpoints]” was WRONG. It always made this person laugh, they knew it was the best I could do and it did somehow make them feel better (even though it sounded totally robotic).

    There are definitely ways in which someone trying to ‘fix’ my feelings can exacerbate me, too. Like today- my dad spent the day teaching me how to replace the radiator in my car. There were moments I was frustrated- but it’s a good kind of frustrated, it’s just part of the process of learning something and figuring out a puzzle. My ENFJ mom parked herself in a lawn chair a few feet away from the car and the moment I had a puzzled look on my face she’d jump in with “what’s wrong?” and all sorts of questions- it drives me bonkers when people do that. It’s rewarding to figure stuff out, but it basically sucks the enjoyment out of the process for me if I have to stop and articulate every single thing I’m trying to figure out. To her- it’s ‘uncaring’ to let someone look troubled without trying to jump in to help - even if she knows absolutely nothing about cars and can’t begin to actually help, she feels compelled to jump in and encourage someone to articulate every single moment’s pause about what’s frustrating. This is something I don’t even begin to understand, yet the experience of silently needing to figure something out without interruption must be so foreign to her that she can’t wrap her mind around it being 100% nuisance to perpetually have my frustration pointed out to me. I’ve tried explaining the frustration goes away by itself once I figure something out- and that “talking about it” is counterproductive (and more frustrating) because it’s infinitely easier for me to figure things out than to explain every single thing that stumps me (even to people who are fully versed in car repair and CAN help- I have to figure out as much as I can on my own, then ask specific questions about that which I can’t…..too much interference and my mind bonks and can’t get anything done). It’s so annoying that I usually avoid working on anything around her, or around anyone with this tendency, but today I didn’t have a choice. People who tend to ‘jump in’ and either ask what’s wrong or start barking directions at me the very second I pause to figure something out drive me absolutely bonkers. I absolutely can not think AND listen at the same time.

    So I guess- for me personally- when someone is actually articulating some kind of dissent, I *hear* some request to help fix the problem (unless I’ve previously learned this person is an exception- I really can totally tune it out without expectations, I just might need to be reminded occasionally). But if someone is simply feeling something in my presence I tread a lot more carefully because I’m all too aware that simply feeling something doesn’t even begin to qualify for ‘call to action’ (according to my experience).

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Hmm...interesting. I've had trouble from family members with this. I find myself reacting poorly when someone tries to 'fix' my feelings. Only knowing that they mean well keeps me from going off. Sometimes it didn't help because they insisted they were going to make me feel better and would become upset when I didn't appreciate their efforts or want their comfort. I don't like to be pushed out of whatever I'm feeling at that moment...it needs to go away on its own or I need time to work my way out of it. Occasionally, I may seek comfort or better yet, a "what do you think?" kind of feedback. So, if I'm grumpy in the morning (or any other time), just leave me alone until I'm better. Asking for feedback is even trickier. I almost always end up wishing that I had kept quiet. It's usually because I feel misunderstood and figure that such things belong inside of me.
    I don’t know if this is what you mean, but it’s actually a big pet peeve of mine when someone expects me to feel something different because it’s taxing on them to be around me while I’m feeling something they don’t want me to feel. It can actually make me quite angry- especially if I’m told it’s ‘selfish’ or whatnot. I really see that as more the other person’s problem and I don’t have much patience with it. Waking up slowly is a good example, nothing makes me grumpier than asking me a bunch of questions or simply talking at me non-stop while I’m waking up. If someone can’t handle being around me and just letting me feel what I’m feeling, then I can’t handle having that person around me. I really think it’s just selfish to *need* other people to feel a certain way. That might be the e5 space/feeling/time/attention hoarder in me, though. I can handle people *trying* to make me feel better and appreciate their attempt, but it doesn’t always work (I also often feel misunderstood and can regret even trying to talk it out) and as soon as they get angry because it’s not working like they want it to…..I avoid them like the plague. I’m pretty self conscious of a sour mood around people I’m not familiar with- but I expect a certain amount of elbow room with those who have been around me a lot more and whom I must spend time around. As I get to know people, that’s when I start setting my boundaries and if I start hearing about how it’s selfish or whatever (needing me to feel something I’m not feeling) then I find their presence too menacing to be around.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  5. #275
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I don’t know if this is what you mean, but it’s actually a big pet peeve of mine when someone expects me to feel something different because it’s taxing on them to be around me while I’m feeling something they don’t want me to feel. It can actually make me quite angry- especially if I’m told it’s ‘selfish’ or whatnot. I really see that as more the other person’s problem and I don’t have much patience with it. Waking up slowly is a good example, nothing makes me grumpier than asking me a bunch of questions or simply talking at me non-stop while I’m waking up. If someone can’t handle being around me and just letting me feel what I’m feeling, then I can’t handle having that person around me. I really think it’s just selfish to *need* other people to feel a certain way. That might be the e5 space/feeling/time/attention hoarder in me, though. I can handle people *trying* to make me feel better and appreciate their attempt, but it doesn’t always work (I also often feel misunderstood and can regret even trying to talk it out) and as soon as they get angry because it’s not working like they want it to…..I avoid them like the plague. I’m pretty self conscious of a sour mood around people I’m not familiar with- but I expect a certain amount of elbow room with those who have been around me a lot more and whom I must spend time around. As I get to know people, that’s when I start setting my boundaries and if I start hearing about how it’s selfish or whatever (needing me to feel something I’m not feeling) then I find their presence too menacing to be around.
    I can't handle people who think they can impose their moods on others and just have them "deal with it." I'll deal with them, alright. GTFO!

    If it's once in a while, that's fine. It makes me think it's a real problem...that something traumatic or unusual has happened to put someone in such a foul state. If it's all the time, though, then I think it's a problem with that person. They're a moody fuck or can't control their emotions. That's when it's GTFO time.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #276
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I can't handle people who think they can impose their moods on others and just have them "deal with it." I'll deal with them, alright. GTFO!
    LOL.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  7. #277
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    On the other side of the fence, I feel from time to time like Fe people miss the point of things, like they are so interested in skimming over feelings and meaning and going straight to behavior that they don't see what people really need. Like they're so interested in just fixing the external situation that they don't attend to people's internal states, which is what creates the external behavior in the first place. You are definitely correct about being patient and understanding to deal with Fi users; to deal with Fe users, we Fi/Te'rs have equally to find ways to explain that our needs typically reside more in emotional support and less in practical assistance, and we have to be more action-oriented ourselves to meet your needs.
    Yea I do see and understand that more and more aswell.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    No, you are on the polar opposite of truth my friend.



    Just do what I said. Yes, I'm being directive here to cut to the chase. Just try it. Listen and do nothing but support, hold and hug with compassion. Be present. Don't for heaven's sake tell her to brighten up or cheer up or ANYTHING like that, or that you're working so hard for both of you blah blah blah.

    Please try it, you have nothing to lose, eh? Then, when she's finished saying what she needs to say, finishes crying or whatever say, "I love you, your feelings matter to me and how else can I help?"

    That is it my dear entropie!

    TRY IT!
    I guess when I'ld start to treat my gf like that "raw apple" you described, my relationship would be over.

    I have understood your point and I have read the description about Fi users as well. The one that advices T people not to always be problem solvers for their Fi mates, but just listen to them so they feel better later when they talked about it. I know too that woman like to meet with their girlfriends because they can talk to them for hours, while thats not possible with her boyfriend. I do respect that and always listen to her without the constant need of being a problem solver for her. But in this one concrete situation, she had a problem she wasnt seeing and acted on the negative emotions and started to ruin things for her. The discussion with her about that is already over and she was glad that I told her. I helped her to regain objectivity on this situation and sometimes that is necessary. She on the other hand helps me to understand my emotions. Thats how we work together.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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