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  1. #11
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    the "you" thing isn't just to you. i do it to myself. 'tis the nature of the beast.

  2. #12
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Sorry, I'm not making blanket Fe/Fi statements. Just going on the trends in Fe/Fi discussions about how Fe expects to be invited to tell something personal and will throw out feelers to see if there is interest, while Fi assumes that if someone wants to tell something, they will just jump in and everyone will add their experiences.

    Similarly, out of those discussions came the revelation that Fe is very outcome oriented, while Fi is a lot more process oriented, so our reasons for communicating the same information are different. (As a mod I would get frustrated about public Fi rants about mod corruption that seemed to be blanket statements and didn't take into account the end effect on the forum, while some Fi users felt that I was trying to stifle the truth from being examined or that I wanted them to do things in a private, sneaky way, rather than out in the open. They felt that everyone should have a voice to express their thoughts. I placed more importance on general outcome, rather than individual voice/process).

    However, I'm not suggesting that no Fe users ever volunteer information or that Fi users just talk about themselves.
    No it's alright; I'm just eternally confused is all, because I identify with everything. Interesting information. Maybe I'm not a good example. Just putting my experience out there to see if I'm similar to other Fe users, or more to Fi users- to get a better picture of the data.

    So if I use Fe with Ti it would make sense that I want to compare and contrast experiences for the purpose of study and analysis. I think Fi-Te would to that too, except that Te would be in service to Fi not the feeling serving the thinking. Edit: Wait, different in the case of INTJ - they're Te-Fi rather than Fi-Te. The plot thickens.

  3. #13
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    I have recently been looking further into my use of Fi vs. Fe. It is interesting what @fidelia has said about Fe users expecting to be invited to share something if there is interest. This struck me because lately in my quest for better social skills, I have realized that most people go into conversations and assume the other people involved want to hear their shit. Personally, when I am socializing, I wait until someone has asked me a specific question. Even then, I will limit my answer, assuming that the person doesn't care to hear a big long story unless they ask for it. It is hard for me to just start talking about myself, especially in person. (That's why forums are awesome!) I guess I just don't really see a useful outcome, as usually I (perhaps wrongly) assume no one is really THAT interested. This has created some problems for me, for instance in that I tend to feel wounded that no one is asking me, which I translate into them not caring, when really most people assume that if there is something wrong, you will present them with it. I don't know if all this is Fe stuff. Can a Fe user tell me what they think?
    I pretty much feel the opposite. So maybe we use opposite functions? Although if we are both uncertain types, it would only lead us to half an answer.

  4. #14
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    I have recently been looking further into my use of Fi vs. Fe. It is interesting what @fidelia has said about Fe users expecting to be invited to share something if there is interest. This struck me because lately in my quest for better social skills, I have realized that most people go into conversations and assume the other people involved want to hear their shit. Personally, when I am socializing, I wait until someone has asked me a specific question. Even then, I will limit my answer, assuming that the person doesn't care to hear a big long story unless they ask for it. It is hard for me to just start talking about myself, especially in person. (That's why forums are awesome!) I guess I just don't really see a useful outcome, as usually I (perhaps wrongly) assume no one is really THAT interested. This has created some problems for me, for instance in that I tend to feel wounded that no one is asking me, which I translate into them not caring, when really most people assume that if there is something wrong, you will present them with it. I don't know if all this is Fe stuff. Can a Fe user tell me what they think?
    I totally identify with how you feel and I think that is a common Fe interpretation when they throw something out there and the other person doesn't express an interest. Also when a person starts telling you about their stories and experiences just as you are telling them about one of your problems, it feels rude and self-centred, or at the least disinterested.

    While it certainly depends on the situation (and can just be immaturity or having not enough emotional margin to factor in the other person's feelings), I realize that I also tend to be less proactive than I should. I don't naturally put myself out there, yet have some silent expectations for what an equal exchange would look like. I don't assume that the other person would want to hear what I'm saying and so over-rely on cues that they are engaged and interested.

    I have realized from my time on here, that Fi users often find question asking (which is my way of showing interest) as intrusive and prying, so they are careful not to do it and assume that if you have something to tell them, you will. So, in part I think it's about gaining more confidence yourself, and then also realizing that a significant amount of the population just works differently than I do and I need to make some adjustments.

    It's been interesting to discover, as Fe/Fi discussions have ensued here to realize that precisely the same action or statement would be perceived entirely differently, depending on Fe or Fi use. Some of the statements Fi users have suggested seem officious, overly emotionally intrusive or just plain unnatural to me, while my way can seem extremely prescriptive, oversimplified and nosy to them.

    To be fair, most of these discussions have been ENFP/INFP/occasionally INTJ dialogue with INFJ/ENFJ/some INTPs. I think the specific flavour of Fe or Fi is greatly influenced by its interactions with other functions. For example, I don't identify at all with the descriptions of SFJ Fe that people talk about. The other functions being used in conjunction with it give it a specific taste that is different than NFJ Fe or NTP Fe or STP Fe (where the latter two group's Fe is further down the list besides!).

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie View Post
    I have recently been looking further into my use of Fi vs. Fe. It is interesting what @fidelia has said about Fe users expecting to be invited to share something if there is interest. This struck me because lately in my quest for better social skills, I have realized that most people go into conversations and assume the other people involved want to hear their shit. Personally, when I am socializing, I wait until someone has asked me a specific question. Even then, I will limit my answer, assuming that the person doesn't care to hear a big long story unless they ask for it. It is hard for me to just start talking about myself, especially in person. (That's why forums are awesome!) I guess I just don't really see a useful outcome, as usually I (perhaps wrongly) assume no one is really THAT interested. This has created some problems for me, for instance in that I tend to feel wounded that no one is asking me, which I translate into them not caring, when really most people assume that if there is something wrong, you will present them with it. I don't know if all this is Fe stuff. Can a Fe user tell me what they think?
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I totally identify with how you feel and I think that is a common Fe interpretation when they throw something out there and the other person doesn't express an interest. Also when a person starts telling you about their stories and experiences just as you are telling them about one of your problems. While it certainly depends on the situation (and can just be immaturity), I realize that I tend to be less proactive than I should and don't put myself out there, yet have some silent expectations for what an equal exchange would look like. I have realized from my time on here, that Fi users often find question asking (which is my way of showing interest) as intrusive and prying, so they are careful not to do it and assume that if you have something to tell them, you will. So, in part I think it's about gaining more confidence yourself, and then also realizing that a significant amount of the population just works differently than I do and I need to make some adjustments.
    I'll co-sign both of these.

    /inferior Fe

  6. #16
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I have realized from my time on here, that Fi users often find question asking (which is my way of showing interest) as intrusive and prying.
    wait what? really?
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    It must also obviously be pointed out that Fe inferior or tertiary would look a lot different than Fe dominant or auxiliary. For instance when I throw questions out (and I apologize if it's intrusive, as I never experience them this way), I just want people to give me a bunch of information so I can analyze it. With the added benefit of being sociable. Ne+Ti+Fe. (?) I tend to not think protocol applies (absence of F anything?).

  8. #18
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think I use Fe. My feelings are very reflective, and dependent on others. I mirror other people's emotional states and moods both unconsciously and consciously to connect better. If I feel upset about something, just having another person there to talk to makes me feel better, and the process of talking makes me feel validated, and makes some of the emotion go away. Also I'm really paranoid about what other people think/feel about me (but it's getting a lot better). I'm very conscious about behaving appropriately (with regard to interpersonal and social relationships), though I don't always know how to do it.

    Emotions seem a lot more valid and meaningful to me if they are collective. My emotions are directly related to my relationship with the world, i.e. how well I am connected to it- if I am loved and accepted (and loving and accepting myself). Of course this true for everyone, but I think acceptance is more important for Fe users. (Although that being said, I mostly only get emotional about how well I measure up to standards- thus not being "acceptable" in my opinion.) Where I think I use Fe a lot is with music. Music expresses my emotions far better than I ever could, and it purges things out of me I didn't know were there. I use it to connect to a collective emotion. I love music that a lot of people can identify with, and I then I feel like I have a group to belong to. Usually I just like passionate or aggressive music, but it all has subtle nuances of attitude. I don't really like sad music; I listen to music to balance whatever mood I am in and bring me back to harmony.

    It's my impression that Fi is more personal. I don't really know.
    Whaat?? Are ya serious? This sounds like you read up on fe first.. If its for real thi is awesome and crazy and super interesting to me. I hope more people will write stuff.

    Thanks for this!
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #19
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    @Randomnity Yep. If you want them to ask more, you have to make it clear that you're good with that, you expect them to if they care and even then they seem reluctant because it just feels unnatural. I mean, I'm reluctant to make a blanket statement like that, but that's been the gist of enough discussions here that I have to assume it is more than an anomaly.

    Asking questions I guess would feel similar to telling someone about an idea and having them be unwilling to listen to the specifics of it and right away demand what the useful outcome of it is or debate its truth/practicality. Te just sounds really final and direct to me (as I guess Fe does to Fi users) and makes me feel put on the spot, especially if I don't feel I have a sympathetic audience to draw me out.

    With Fe, I really don't feel all that final about what I say. I may even throw out a conjuncture about why I think someone is acting as they do (and sound like I'm making a statement), but am completely open to any new information that would modify my opinion. It's a way of even figuring out what I think and feel about it. I just assume that everyone knows this is what I'm doing, but Fi users don't and it sound mean and judgey.

    Te users do the same with information. I've found it fascinating this summer to watch my 10 year old nephew who is a very heavy Te user as he develops an idea or thought. He sounds extremely sure about what he is saying (whether he is or not), yet as he gains new information, keeps modifying his explanations of the information he is sharing to include the new facts he has learned. I used to really misinterpret this in the same way that Fi users would with my Fe and assume that they weren't open to new information or that they had already finalized a decision (because I wouldn't verbalize facts until they were well integrated into my thinking structure and I was pretty sure about them and not that open to changing without a good reason for it).

    I haven't been in any long relationships with Fi doms. Most of my interactions have been with people who have tert or inferior Fi. Certainly with them, that has been the case.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    With Fe, I really don't feel all that final about what I say. I may even throw out a conjuncture about why I think someone is acting as they do (and sound like I'm making a statement), but am completely open to any new information that would modify my opinion. It's a way of even figuring out what I think and feel about it. I just assume that everyone knows this is what I'm doing, but Fi users don't and it sound mean and judgey.
    I always assume if I avoid any specific remarks about people and keep it general that it won't be seen as judgment or an attack, but that doesn't always go well. That happen to you?

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