• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

DAMN IT! I WANT TO HEAR FE USERS TALK ABOUT THEIR FE!

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I thought we answered this already. And my opinion is that it can in a way but i think it still comes across differently. Like instead of bending to make the group happy. I would say how about we all just agree to disagree or just do our own thing.

So... I still want there to be limited conflict but I don't want people to have to give up something that's really important to them either.
 

Reverie

In orbit
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
291
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx
Fe makes you secretly really really wish you were the psychologist in this video (coincidentally this was sent to me by an ENFJ psychologist... ;) ). If you've ever had Fe overload your circuitboard, you'd know why.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
I thought we answered this already. And my opinion is that it can in a way but i think it still comes across differently. Like instead of bending to make the group happy. I would say how about we all just agree to disagree or just do our own thing.

So... I still want there to be limited conflict but I don't want people to have to give up something that's really important to them either.

Clinging to once individuality is a thing I support too, tho there are enough people who give that up for group dynamics.

For me Fe isnt only about group dynamics and social conventions in general are a thing I never liked so much. I think one of the most respectable qualities of dom Fe users is the perspective change. Namely that they are able to feel how it is for you and even to think for you in advance sometimes. I think that is a quality everybody would like. This a sort of life wisdom tho, one has to learn first.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Also the thing is that fi users just weigh things constantly...things are filtered and catorigized by importance... Is this thing more important to you than me? Is it valid? Is it reasonable? If so I'll just let ya have it... If its offensive or stupid or just means too much to me then I won't budge

Ya know?

So... It could look like fe... Perhaps

We take others peoples wishes into consideration too
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
Also the thing is that fi users just weigh things constantly...things are filtered and catorigized by importance... Is this thing more important to you than me? Is it valid? Is it reasonable? If so I'll just let ya have it... If its offensive or stupid or just means too much to me then I won't budge

Ya know?

So... It could look like fe... Perhaps

We take others peoples wishes into consideration too

Ya I know, its a kind of filtering right ?

I had a good example with my gf, who is a dom fi: she just had a difficult operation on her hand and since then she cant do stuff like she wants. We moved to a new appartment recently and we still have a lot to do in th apartment, only problem is I work 10 hours a day atm, while she has to stay home and cant do shit with that hand. She nevertheless carries a lot of heavy stuff around and tho I am telling her every day to quit that, she continues and carrieing to heavy stuff was mainly the reason why she needed to be operated in the first place. ( She's got carpal tunnel syndrome).

So yesterday she yelled at me all out of a sudden pretty heavily that I am not helping her enough in her current situation. I think thats pretty egoistic cause I am working the whole day, I just cant help her atm. But I cant say that, then we would argue. So I tell her that I have been complaining about her not resting the last three weeks because I am worried about her. That now when she doesnt take time and rest her hand she'll ruin it forever and cant move it afterwards. I know that illness from my mum and since it is accelerated when you put constant pressure on the hand, I am right on that one. She tho didnt ever consider that I am telling her to rest her hand because I am worried about her, she tought I am telling her that so I dont have to do the chores. Then she was angry about me not helping her dressing up and showering. Well I tried helping her but she got frustrated in the first nanosecond yelled several times at me and I told her to do her stuff alone.

The problem and core to the whole story is that she has got a problem with her current situation what is perfectly understandable. But instead of facing that problem or understanding it objectively, she starts acting on the negative emotions her problem causes and becomes almost unbearable. The thing is tho she evaluates everything from her personal fi value system and is concerned with stuff always from her own perspective, she aint able to objectively see her problems. And thats an ability she can get from an ne-fe combo, the ability to drag new information into her own world for an update or refreshment of her thoughts. Nobody can stay forever in his or her own head and think he would do everything right or have all the information necessary. Sometimes it is more important to listen to others, to find out something about oneself.

Fi people are a very difficult bunch of people, I must say, tho there are way more difficult people out there. :) At times I have the feeling they never wanted to be older than 6 years. But it is of key importance to never get worked up with them, but to staying cool and trieing to understand them. Then when you wait long enough they grant you access to their world for a moment and then you can place your accounts receivables. When you are lucky then, they will respect you.
 

Eilonwy

Vulnerability
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
7,051
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Have you ever been in or witnessed an argument where the two people were actually saying the same thing, only different ways, so they thought they were saying opposite things instead? Perhaps that's what's happening here. Fe/Fi=different focus or interpretation of same basic process? So maybe it all feels the same to the respective users, but the focus is different for each?*


*Disclaimer: my knowledge of functions is next to nothing, so I could be stating the obvious, or I could be so off-base that it's not even funny.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
5,950
MBTI Type
N/A
Enneagram
N/A
Fi people are a very difficult bunch of people, I must say, tho there are way more difficult people out there. :) At times I have the feeling they never wanted to be older than 6 years. But it is of key importance to never get worked up with them, but to staying cool and trieing to understand them. Then when you wait long enough they grant you access to their world for a moment and then you can place your accounts receivables. When you are lucky then, they will respect you.

Reading this makes me want to just throw my hands in the air.

She doesn't want you to solve her problems, man. She just wants you to listen to how she's feeling, NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT HUG HER in that moment. Nothing. No suggestions. NONE.

Once that happens, SHE will manage her own emotions and make her own progress. She does NOT need or want you to do that for her.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Also the thing is that fi users just weigh things constantly...things are filtered and catorigized by importance... Is this thing more important to you than me? Is it valid? Is it reasonable? If so I'll just let ya have it... If its offensive or stupid or just means too much to me then I won't budge

Ya know?

So... It could look like fe... Perhaps

We take others peoples wishes into consideration too

Interesting how the Ne affects the aux Fi~how the Fi filters through the dom Ne.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
Reading this makes me want to just throw my hands in the air.

She doesn't want you to solve her problems, man. She just wants you to listen to how she's feeling, NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT EXCEPT HUG HER in that moment. Nothing. No suggestions. NONE.

Once that happens, SHE will manage her own emotions and make her own progress. She does NOT need or want you to do that for her.

So woman are godlike and man are just the accessoire
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
5,950
MBTI Type
N/A
Enneagram
N/A
So woman are godlike and man are just the accessoire

No, she's an Fi user, you cannot use your emotion like a tool to try to solve her emotions. Once you give her emotions a space to breathe, she will solve for them herself.

Anyway, sorry to get a little exasperated, I don't know if you get how insulting it sounds to hear someone say "At times I have the feeling they [Fi users] never wanted to be older than 6 years."

Hope everything works out for you and I hope your girlfriend's hand heals soon and well.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
No, she's an Fi user, you cannot use your emotion like a tool to try to solve her emotions. Once you give her emotions a space to breathe, she will solve for them herself.

Anyway, sorry to get a little exasperated, I don't know if you get how insulting it sounds to hear someone say "At times I have the feeling they [Fi users] never wanted to be older than 6 years."

Hope everything works out for you and I hope your girlfriend's hand heals soon and well.

Well if you think thats insulting than I hit the truth. And besides, when I cant use my emotion to solve an Fi users emotional problem, what can I then
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Fi people are a very difficult bunch of people, I must say, tho there are way more difficult people out there. :) At times I have the feeling they never wanted to be older than 6 years. But it is of key importance to never get worked up with them, but to staying cool and trieing to understand them. Then when you wait long enough they grant you access to their world for a moment and then you can place your accounts receivables. When you are lucky then, they will respect you.

:laugh: On the other side of the fence, I feel from time to time like Fe people miss the point of things, like they are so interested in skimming over feelings and meaning and going straight to behavior that they don't see what people really need. Like they're so interested in just fixing the external situation that they don't attend to people's internal states, which is what creates the external behavior in the first place. You are definitely correct about being patient and understanding to deal with Fi users; to deal with Fe users, we Fi/Te'rs have equally to find ways to explain that our needs typically reside more in emotional support and less in practical assistance, and we have to be more action-oriented ourselves to meet your needs.

In the situation with your girlfriend, I suspect you're feeling like you're trying to help her as best as you can but it's not necessarily the kind of help that she needs. This divide happened/happens a lot between me and my ESFJ mom, who feels like she's helping when she for instance rushes off to get me something when I'm sick but all I really want is to have someone sitting with me while I'm hurting, and her leaving just makes me feel more unhappy and alone. Try paying more attention to your girlfriend's internal needs, like what PB said about just listening to her and giving her a hug. Try to be patient with her when she struggles. With Te, she will be perfectly competent at dealing with the practical difficulties of her injury (and, as you have witnessed, she is perfectly competent at asking you for help if and when she needs it). What she needs in terms of Fi is probably mostly emotional support.

Well if you think thats insulting than I hit the truth.
I think it's more like that's a fairly belittling sentiment and doesn't really demonstrate much desire to understand how Fi users feel.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
5,950
MBTI Type
N/A
Enneagram
N/A
Well if you think thats insulting than I hit the truth. And besides, when I cant use my emotion to solve an Fi users emotional problem, what can I then

No, you are on the polar opposite of truth my friend.

:hug:

Just do what I said. Yes, I'm being directive here to cut to the chase. Just try it. Listen and do nothing but support, hold and hug with compassion. Be present. Don't for heaven's sake tell her to brighten up or cheer up or ANYTHING like that, or that you're working so hard for both of you blah blah blah.

Please try it, you have nothing to lose, eh? Then, when she's finished saying what she needs to say, finishes crying or whatever say, "I love you, your feelings matter to me and how else can I help?"

That is it my dear entropie!

TRY IT! :)
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
6,047
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This thing about ‘fixing’ feelings- there a many ways this could be interpreted (and in threads like this I think it causes problems because everyone throws their own specific interpretation in the pot without clarifying and it causes misunderstanding- which is what I suspect [MENTION=8244]Eilonwy[/MENTION] was trying to point out). When I say I feel compelled to ‘fix’, I mean if someone walks into the room and complains about something- I hear it as a directive, as a call to action, unless I’m familiar enough with the person to know they don’t want anything ‘fixed’ they just want to express some kind of feeling about it (?), or something, and then I have no problem with tuning it out. The autoplay thread is a good example of this- I don’t really understand the point of expressing a strong opinion and sticking to it without any expectation for that opinion to make some kind of difference in the external environment…..but according to other things said in that thread, apparently the purpose of expressing it is simply to express it?

In the last relationship I was in, it became a sort of running joke- this person would vent and I’d draw a blank expression and say “there, there” in a monotone voice while patting their back…..it was like a reminder that I had absolutely no idea what they were expecting to hear, all I knew is that my usual “well you could try this” or “maybe this person just wanted [points out other possible viewpoints]” was WRONG. It always made this person laugh, they knew it was the best I could do and it did somehow make them feel better (even though it sounded totally robotic). :shrug:

There are definitely ways in which someone trying to ‘fix’ my feelings can exacerbate me, too. Like today- my dad spent the day teaching me how to replace the radiator in my car. There were moments I was frustrated- but it’s a good kind of frustrated, it’s just part of the process of learning something and figuring out a puzzle. My ENFJ mom parked herself in a lawn chair a few feet away from the car and the moment I had a puzzled look on my face she’d jump in with “what’s wrong?” and all sorts of questions- it drives me bonkers when people do that. It’s rewarding to figure stuff out, but it basically sucks the enjoyment out of the process for me if I have to stop and articulate every single thing I’m trying to figure out. To her- it’s ‘uncaring’ to let someone look troubled without trying to jump in to help :doh:- even if she knows absolutely nothing about cars and can’t begin to actually help, she feels compelled to jump in and encourage someone to articulate every single moment’s pause about what’s frustrating. This is something I don’t even begin to understand, yet the experience of silently needing to figure something out without interruption must be so foreign to her that she can’t wrap her mind around it being 100% nuisance to perpetually have my frustration pointed out to me. I’ve tried explaining the frustration goes away by itself once I figure something out- and that “talking about it” is counterproductive (and more frustrating) because it’s infinitely easier for me to figure things out than to explain every single thing that stumps me (even to people who are fully versed in car repair and CAN help- I have to figure out as much as I can on my own, then ask specific questions about that which I can’t…..too much interference and my mind bonks and can’t get anything done). It’s so annoying that I usually avoid working on anything around her, or around anyone with this tendency, but today I didn’t have a choice. People who tend to ‘jump in’ and either ask what’s wrong or start barking directions at me the very second I pause to figure something out drive me absolutely bonkers. I absolutely can not think AND listen at the same time.

So I guess- for me personally- when someone is actually articulating some kind of dissent, I *hear* some request to help fix the problem (unless I’ve previously learned this person is an exception- I really can totally tune it out without expectations, I just might need to be reminded occasionally). But if someone is simply feeling something in my presence I tread a lot more carefully because I’m all too aware that simply feeling something doesn’t even begin to qualify for ‘call to action’ (according to my experience).

Hmm...interesting. I've had trouble from family members with this. I find myself reacting poorly when someone tries to 'fix' my feelings. Only knowing that they mean well keeps me from going off. Sometimes it didn't help because they insisted they were going to make me feel better and would become upset when I didn't appreciate their efforts or want their comfort. I don't like to be pushed out of whatever I'm feeling at that moment...it needs to go away on its own or I need time to work my way out of it. Occasionally, I may seek comfort or better yet, a "what do you think?" kind of feedback. So, if I'm grumpy in the morning (or any other time), just leave me alone until I'm better. Asking for feedback is even trickier. I almost always end up wishing that I had kept quiet. It's usually because I feel misunderstood and figure that such things belong inside of me.

I don’t know if this is what you mean, but it’s actually a big pet peeve of mine when someone expects me to feel something different because it’s taxing on them to be around me while I’m feeling something they don’t want me to feel. It can actually make me quite angry- especially if I’m told it’s ‘selfish’ or whatnot. I really see that as more the other person’s problem and I don’t have much patience with it. Waking up slowly is a good example, nothing makes me grumpier than asking me a bunch of questions or simply talking at me non-stop while I’m waking up. If someone can’t handle being around me and just letting me feel what I’m feeling, then I can’t handle having that person around me. I really think it’s just selfish to *need* other people to feel a certain way. That might be the e5 space/feeling/time/attention hoarder in me, though. I can handle people *trying* to make me feel better and appreciate their attempt, but it doesn’t always work (I also often feel misunderstood and can regret even trying to talk it out) and as soon as they get angry because it’s not working like they want it to…..I avoid them like the plague. I’m pretty self conscious of a sour mood around people I’m not familiar with- but I expect a certain amount of elbow room with those who have been around me a lot more and whom I must spend time around. As I get to know people, that’s when I start setting my boundaries and if I start hearing about how it’s selfish or whatever (needing me to feel something I’m not feeling) then I find their presence too menacing to be around.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
I don’t know if this is what you mean, but it’s actually a big pet peeve of mine when someone expects me to feel something different because it’s taxing on them to be around me while I’m feeling something they don’t want me to feel. It can actually make me quite angry- especially if I’m told it’s ‘selfish’ or whatnot. I really see that as more the other person’s problem and I don’t have much patience with it. Waking up slowly is a good example, nothing makes me grumpier than asking me a bunch of questions or simply talking at me non-stop while I’m waking up. If someone can’t handle being around me and just letting me feel what I’m feeling, then I can’t handle having that person around me. I really think it’s just selfish to *need* other people to feel a certain way. That might be the e5 space/feeling/time/attention hoarder in me, though. I can handle people *trying* to make me feel better and appreciate their attempt, but it doesn’t always work (I also often feel misunderstood and can regret even trying to talk it out) and as soon as they get angry because it’s not working like they want it to…..I avoid them like the plague. I’m pretty self conscious of a sour mood around people I’m not familiar with- but I expect a certain amount of elbow room with those who have been around me a lot more and whom I must spend time around. As I get to know people, that’s when I start setting my boundaries and if I start hearing about how it’s selfish or whatever (needing me to feel something I’m not feeling) then I find their presence too menacing to be around.

I can't handle people who think they can impose their moods on others and just have them "deal with it." I'll deal with them, alright. GTFO!

If it's once in a while, that's fine. It makes me think it's a real problem...that something traumatic or unusual has happened to put someone in such a foul state. If it's all the time, though, then I think it's a problem with that person. They're a moody fuck or can't control their emotions. That's when it's GTFO time.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
:laugh: On the other side of the fence, I feel from time to time like Fe people miss the point of things, like they are so interested in skimming over feelings and meaning and going straight to behavior that they don't see what people really need. Like they're so interested in just fixing the external situation that they don't attend to people's internal states, which is what creates the external behavior in the first place. You are definitely correct about being patient and understanding to deal with Fi users; to deal with Fe users, we Fi/Te'rs have equally to find ways to explain that our needs typically reside more in emotional support and less in practical assistance, and we have to be more action-oriented ourselves to meet your needs.

Yea I do see and understand that more and more aswell.

No, you are on the polar opposite of truth my friend.

:hug:

Just do what I said. Yes, I'm being directive here to cut to the chase. Just try it. Listen and do nothing but support, hold and hug with compassion. Be present. Don't for heaven's sake tell her to brighten up or cheer up or ANYTHING like that, or that you're working so hard for both of you blah blah blah.

Please try it, you have nothing to lose, eh? Then, when she's finished saying what she needs to say, finishes crying or whatever say, "I love you, your feelings matter to me and how else can I help?"

That is it my dear entropie!

TRY IT! :)

I guess when I'ld start to treat my gf like that "raw apple" you described, my relationship would be over. :)

I have understood your point and I have read the description about Fi users as well. The one that advices T people not to always be problem solvers for their Fi mates, but just listen to them so they feel better later when they talked about it. I know too that woman like to meet with their girlfriends because they can talk to them for hours, while thats not possible with her boyfriend. I do respect that and always listen to her without the constant need of being a problem solver for her. But in this one concrete situation, she had a problem she wasnt seeing and acted on the negative emotions and started to ruin things for her. The discussion with her about that is already over and she was glad that I told her. I helped her to regain objectivity on this situation and sometimes that is necessary. She on the other hand helps me to understand my emotions. Thats how we work together.
 
Top