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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well no it doesn't have to be. But it is notoriously hard to explain to the fullest extent to other people who don't think the same way. Unless you do it step by grueling step.
    Yeah, I cant do it step by step very good as alot of things loop back and I dont know where to start or end and when a path Ys off over and over you have to follow one, then backtrack to another, and...holy crap its confusing as hell to try and explain.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #142
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    The only thing with Ti is that someone needs to be interested enough in the details, because they are integral to the whole system working. Most Te users want a quick summary and a practical application right away. That's actually been a good thing for me, as it forces me to try to prioritize what is really the most important.

    I agree with the others though, it can get overwhelming to know how to start explaining something in a way that is engaging and that still encompasses what matters.

  3. #143
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Yes that's why we speak in metaphors!
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Poki_ View Post
    Yeah, I cant do it step by step very good as alot of things loop back and I dont know where to start or end and when a path Ys off over and over you have to follow one, then backtrack to another, and...holy crap its confusing as hell to try and explain.
    And to make it even worse while we are explaining it it is still up to be improved on the spot which may change alot and its simple in our mind, but complicated to go back through quickly and say...then this does this, and this will change to that, and this becomes that, and we dont need this anymore as its been inherited by the other process.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #145
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Read Lenore Thomson's book.. Ti with Se becomes a more tactile body logic. It's a way of being rather than detaching. It's less abstracted or "notably intellectual". She even said the Se gets mistaken for emotion, depending on the intensity of experience.

  6. #146
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    Plus an Ne person will want to brain storm in the middle and then your project explodes into a spider web with multiple tangents here and there which in our mind all tie back into a very complicated 3d web.
    Im out, its been fun

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    Yes that's why we speak in metaphors!
    I like analogies, but those arent always spot on so when someone asks questin we end up back in the well its different because of XYZ and 123 and this part is like this and that part can be kinda like that and we end up with a Jackelope.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #148
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    oh god no no that's not what i meant!! i wasn't saying that is how fe is...shit...no i meant to just put it into terms everyone could understand and relate to. like everyone knows in that scenario the individuals rights trump the majority.

    i was just saying we zero in on the individual. what is "right" by them without deciding what is right for the collective. like...ideal for me is that each individual in a group feels they have a voice and that people compromise to get the most of what's important to the individuals by bending in other ways that are less important.
    I'm not sure this has more to do with function preference than it does a person's general outlook on human relations. Function preference has more to do with how a person determines whether the situation corresponds with their preference or ideal, and not so much that ideal itself.

    In your scenario:
    Fe: What has gone on in this situation has triggered feelings of sadness/discomfort/indignation within me. These feelings let me know that something about the situation is wrong, and now I can look to see what it is about the situation that causes me to feel this way. Ne might imagine being in the bullied person's place, and what hearing those words might personally feel like. This is still Fe processing because the trigger for the feelings comes from the external world. If it seems overly collectivistic at times, that might come as a result of the collective emotional triggers weighing more heavily than an individual trigger, especially if there is little experience a person has in relating to the individual. However, in your example, the weight of the bullied person's emotional triggers could easily outweigh those of the group, especially if there is shared experience. The collective is wrong, in this case, so the solution is to change the collective's behavior. Part of doing that is providing logical arguments for everyone having a voice and compromising (the Ti approach).

    If I understand correctly, the Fi approach starts from the realization that the observer feels "wrongness". The panoply of emotions that the person feels all coalesce around the particular truth that what is occurring feels holistically wrong. These emotions are not so much the response to particular triggers, as they are constant points of reference that illuminate and explain the world more fully. So, since the bullying situation feels wrong, without any reference to the participants, this clarifies the truth of the situation. The question is then who the "wrongness" resonates most clearly with, which in this case is the bullied person as victim, and members of the collective as perpetrators. The focus is on that victim, because their suffering is what damns the situation as wrong in its totality. The collective could avert its role in the wrongness by acting in a certain way, but the victim has done nothing to be a part of the wrongness, and yet, is inextricably so. This deep injustice permeates and infects the whole social structure, and so defending the victim at all costs becomes necessary to contain the injustice. Then, external rules and structures are to be put in place so as to prevent these scenarios where injustice is inevitable (Te approach). I could be wrong about this, though.

    Both believe in individual rights and compromise, but for vastly different reasons.

  9. #149
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Your favorite cake = Fe, your favorite pie = Fi, and your favorite pudding = I don't remember.

    *starts thinking about baking a cake*
    NO! I want pie!

  10. #150
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'm fine with cake. Carrot cake, German Chocolate, Cheesecake. Pie doesn't stand a chance really.

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