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  1. #111
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Grr, I have to retype this because I lost my last response.

    My answer is yes, and I think maybe a better word for principals is 'ideal'. Like for auto-play, I had to say a word for the ideal that in a personal space an owner should have more control over content than the visitor. And I hesitated to type that last sentence, because I don't want to sound like I'm campaigning. Another ideal I have is that everybody should face each other on equal ground, even if that means hobbling myself with somebody else in a conflict.

    I think we both have principals, it's just their focus is different.
    yes yes perfect explanation thank you. sometimes i just can't find the words.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #112
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Grr, I have to retype this because I lost my last response.

    My answer is yes, and I think maybe a better word for principals is 'ideal'. Like for auto-play, I had to say a word for the ideal that in a personal space an owner should have more control over content than the visitor. And I hesitated to type that last sentence, because I don't want to sound like I'm campaigning. Another ideal I have is that everybody should face each other on equal ground, even if that means hobbling myself with somebody else in a conflict.

    I think we both have principals, it's just their focus is different.
    I guess that makes sense. I have a hard time understanding how any principle could be more important than how something affects other people, but I guess that's just a difference of opinion.

    But then I guess I could take an extreme example like "does a murderer still need to be punished if nobody still living is hurt by his actions", and I would have to say yes, so I guess there is the principle of fairness outweighing how it affects people (i.e. the murderer)....but then, if the punishment was perceived to be unfair, that is still affecting the people who are perceiving. So it's hard to say if it's really the principle there or if it's the reason for the principle in the first place (fairness isn't necessarily a virtue in a vaccuum - it's more that it's a good practice both for civilized society and to avoid hurt feelings etc.)

    don't mind me, just rambling.
    -end of thread-

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Do Fe users often feel the need to defend things that they and even most people don't like?
    No.

  4. #114
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    ok so my fi goes bleep blip bloop when it goes off, but its nice because i know it exists, so all you have to do find your bleep blip bloop and you'll be free. but its nice, it knows when its wanted and when it needs to be tucked away. it serves me well, but sometimes its not right, but it's ok so really what do i have to complain about? you can't describe fi in words, or at least i can't. and i don't mean that to be mysterious, i mean i can't i've tried but i just can't.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #115
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I can't even address "autoplay" with any moral dynamics to it. That's kind of crazy to me that it's going that far.. I haven't really read that thread. I'd agree that it's no one's business though.
    Maybe it has to do with having a tertiary feeling function? I guess Randomnity has that too, maybe that gets expressed in everyone differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I guess that makes sense. I have a hard time understanding how any principle could be more important than how something affects other people, but I guess that's just a difference of opinion.

    But then I guess I could take an extreme example like "does a murderer still need to be punished if nobody still living is hurt by his actions", and I would have to say yes, so I guess there is the principle of fairness outweighing how it affects people (i.e. the murderer)....but then, if the punishment was perceived to be unfair, that is still affecting the people who are perceiving. So it's hard to say if it's really the principle there or if it's the reason for the principle in the first place (fairness isn't necessarily a virtue in a vaccuum - it's more that it's a good practice both for civilized society and to avoid hurt feelings etc.)

    don't mind me, just rambling.
    Haha.. it's after lunch and I'm slightly drowsy, thanks for letting me off the hook. I get the gist, though. Fi doesn't come from nowhere, though. I'm quite sure my ideals are based in the principals of how it would be best for everybody. They seem more crystalized than Fe, they're formed in a different process.

  6. #116
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    On top of that, sharing that part of yourself, when it isnt welcome, causes intense feelings of rejection and shame, as we dont want to burden the person with that type of intense messy shit, if it isnt welcomed (we know first hand how difficult that stuff can be to wade through).
    Even my tert Fi has this one figured out. A critical criterion for my sharing this sort of stuff with someone is that they must sincerely want to hear it. A generic kindly shoulder to cry on just won't do. Only a handful of people have ever met this criterion.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #117
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I guess that makes sense. I have a hard time understanding how any principle could be more important than how something affects other people, but I guess that's just a difference of opinion.

    But then I guess I could take an extreme example like "does a murderer still need to be punished if nobody still living is hurt by his actions", and I would have to say yes, so I guess there is the principle of fairness outweighing how it affects people (i.e. the murderer)....but then, if the punishment was perceived to be unfair, that is still affecting the people who are perceiving. So it's hard to say if it's really the principle there or if it's the reason for the principle in the first place (fairness isn't necessarily a virtue in a vaccuum - it's more that it's a good practice both for civilized society and to avoid hurt feelings etc.)

    don't mind me, just rambling.
    think of it like this...

    there's 15 kids all surrounding a bully and the kid he's picking on. the kids watching are egging him on. they wanna see a fight. they laugh at the bully's cruel jokes.

    the majority as i see it does not win. their rights do not outweigh the individual because of the inherent truth of what is right.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    think of it like this...

    there's 15 kids all surrounding a bully and the kid he's picking on. the kids watching are egging him on. they wanna see a fight. they laugh at the bully's cruel jokes.

    the majority as i see it does not win. their rights do not outweigh the individual because of the inherent truth of what is right.
    Except you're the aural bullies! :P

  9. #119
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    so difficult to put into words...truly it is.

    but i'll try...imagine for a moment that i have been to heaven and back and i have seen and felt the truth. i know with every thing that i am what love is...i know how utterly sacred the human spirit is.

    and here i am walking around with this knowing...this knowing of the value of each individual...and what rights we each have to experience all the depth of beauty this life has to offer...so when i see someone step on that right...or attempt to take it from another...it hurts my heart...truly pains it. not in some slight way but in a blasphemous deep deep hurt...like they are going against all that is right...all that should be and all that each individual deserves. it is a sense of knowing something is wrong by emphatically feeling what it does to others...if it causes hurt to you...if it in anyway takes away your inherent rights. it is wrong.

    i feel that the individual spirit is sacred and should be protected at all costs.

    i feel my way through the world...i experience the world not only through the sights and sounds but the feeling impressions that i encounter throughout the day. i am terribly nostalgic and idealistic and my thoughts wander like that of a child playing make believe...so how i feel is often determined by what i'm imagining at the time....certain activities/places can be enjoyable because maybe it reminds me of a beautiful scene in a movie i saw once...or a favorite memory...or whatever place my mind has wandered off to
    Well, I can relate to this. I feel inextricably connected to all the life energy on Earth in all its forms, and the Earth itself. When other beings are harmed it hurts me too. Could Fe not feel this way too? Because of the collectivism?

    My feelings aren't what I would call grandiose though. More like dramatic in a glamorous way- like I wouldn't see any use for them if they didn't impress an audience. Maybe that's unusual. Like I'm a movie star in my own mind, except it's more about attitude than drama. Any Fi users feel this way? Or are they just about the allure of the drama?

  10. #120
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Except you're the aural bullies! :P
    ^^ that's only because you think the profile should be controlled by the community not the member.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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