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  1. #11
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gen View Post
    I know listening isn't about fixing things, its about listening... it's about being compassionate... wait a minute, are you an F!?!? This is the thing, I rarely just need someone to listen to me, I want to discuss it and get some thoughts on it. I've learned that some people do just want to be heard; and I find it very difficult to stop myself from giving advice.
    Who said I was thinking of me? I know some Fs you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen View Post
    Of course I have silly, that's why I said that I agree being interrupted is annoying.

    I can't speak for everyone, of course, but I doubt that they've just stopped listening. They're E's remember. What happens in your head, as an I is that you get a bunch of info and need to process it before you move on. That's not what happens in theirs. They'll take it all in and then process it as it comes out when you're done talking.
    Not always true. The people I'd class as a-typical extroverts (ie stuck on output) tend not to listen at all, yes their representative of a very small group but as far as I see it the pattern shows through most extroverts. Hence how part way through telling an extrovert your trouble they may well declare you an idiot and not wait to tell you either
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen View Post
    The one caveat I have is that none of this can be applied to all E's, of course. You may have unhealthy E's, selfish E's, stressed E's, overly familiar E's, or any number of reasons that they will actually be horrible listeners. I maintain a person is not a bad listener just because they are an extrovert.
    That is true. However what type would you say a person was if they stayed quiet and listened as a preference? E or I?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen View Post
    Yes it does. You may find yourself in a situation where you are butting heads with someone and it's become a lockhold where no one will give in. Annoying as it is, sometimes the best thing to do is hold out the olive branch and be extremely respectful. This will help soften the other person, and give them no reason to continue being overtly disrespectful or hold to their guns so hard. It doesn't always work, but I never chalk up a situation as impossible until I've tried it.
    That's not direct as some will take your actions as grovelling and a sign of weakness, stepping in for the kill. Giving is sometimes mistaken for an agreement of a return on the investment, such is societal norm but not a rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen View Post
    You may be right, extrovert. That's why I don't surround myself with introverts. I need people around me who will talk; god knows I'm not gonna!
    Let me see, the missus, by close mate Mike, Jon, Dave... ... Ellen, Shell... nah I completely ignore extroverts

    My family are extroverts. It doesn't stop my favourite relative being the INFJ who rarely calls or visits and tends to forget things like calling back, birthdays etc.

    I like extroverts and extroverted things (like cars) because of the feedback and because it's entertaining. But I also like coffee, I still wouldn't use it as shampoo.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #12
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Well sometimes I want a discussion about something like whether it's more appropriate to consider X value more important than Y or if I'm just forgetting Z and in my circle the introverts tend to consider it more carefully where as the extroverts will tell you how simple it is and ask why you asked (which is not the kind of conversational direction which they often have patience for).
    Do I? And no you can't use the trump card, of saying there are exceptions, if you want to make generalisations about Es go for it but that includes me. I can only guess that you are refering to an extroverted J telling you how simple something is? Also your permanently biased opinion; that introverts obviously consider everything more deeply than extroverts is as offensive as it has always been.. sigh... Also i honeslty think discussion about X vs Y and the missing Z are much more likely to get a "well that is easy" response from any S especially if coupled with J rather than E or I becoming the dominate factor governing how people responed to these kinds of discussions.


    That's the thing with me though, I most often absorb really quickly.
    Yet if you feel an extrovert has spoken quicker than you think is appropriate for the response to have been based on throughly absorbed version of the information you have given earlier, you are happy to conclude that they have only considered it in a shallow mane; You reserve to yourself a level of judgement about what has happened in their heads.

    Here someone suggests that someone else has made some comments worth thinking about and you reply you have thought about them enough. By the rules you apply to others around you, when you are speaking, it is, in this example, for Gen to decide if you thought about it enough... hehehe


  3. #13
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    That is true. However what type would you say a person was if they stayed quiet and listened as a preference? E or I?

    I like extroverts and extroverted things (like cars) because of the feedback and because it's entertaining. But I also like coffee, I still wouldn't use it as shampoo.
    Well then, there you go, sorry everyone, no one talk to extroverts please, all the enfps in counselling (a profession that is dependent on being able to listen and supposedly good for enpfs) stop cos you obviously can't listen you are an extrovert!

    Ah silly of me, and I thought you were slowly moving away form preconceived ideas of what a type means!

    Do I do to Es or Is to talk? You know what? I don't even think about whether they are extroverted or intorovert, I would no go sharing my problems with people who I do not think really understand (there is one exception to that though) and by understand i do not mean agree with my perspective but understand the way i interpret the world and thus is able to discuss things in a manner that aids my understanding of self.

    Frankly, Xander, you have given me the "but it's oh so simple" line more often than some of the extroverts in my life ever have.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
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    Oh ignore me, I'm just ranty and hungry and annoyed that my inconsiderate (and introverted I may as well add) housemate thinks it isn't important to clean up her mess in the kitchen, which means if I go cook my meal it will take me about an hour to do, what is mostly her, washing up before i can even start. I'm also annoyed that i can't concentrate on preparing for my exam tomorrow, not that I expect you to appreciate that, after all it's only worthless formal education huh?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Who said I was thinking of me? I know some Fs you know.
    Squirm. You said it was you who just wanted to be heard.

    Not always true. The people I'd class as a-typical extroverts (ie stuck on output) tend not to listen at all, yes their representative of a very small group but as far as I see it the pattern shows through most extroverts. Hence how part way through telling an extrovert your trouble they may well declare you an idiot and not wait to tell you either
    There very well may be occasions where before you're done, I have come to a conclusion that what you did was idiotic. If you came to me and explained some instance where, in the beginning you decided to rob a bank, I would tell you you're an idiot, before you got to the point where you told me you felt guilty and gave the money to the children's hospital.

    Further, what you're saying is that not all extroverts don't listen but that tendency exists in all of them. Can you make up your mind please? I actually disagree. I think the tendency could exist in anyone. You know very well that we can get caught on a word someone says that can send us into daydream land or on some kind of mind tangent - which means we're not listening anymore - only to come back realizing we've missed a lot of the story.

    That is true. However what type would you say a person was if they stayed quiet and listened as a preference? E or I?
    I can play your game . That person could very well be an Fe dominant person, which would be an extrovert.

    That's not direct as some will take your actions as grovelling and a sign of weakness, stepping in for the kill. Giving is sometimes mistaken for an agreement of a return on the investment, such is societal norm but not a rule.
    Thats true, some people do see it as a sign of weakness, but you know what? I see someone jumping in for the kill as a sign of weakness. I'll show my weak cards because I don't just want to win, I want to find agreement and accord. I show mine as a sign of non-aggression and you do the same. If someone doesn't meet my generosity in that way, then they are chalked up as the actual weak party in my mind and I don't need to win any more than I would need to win an argument with a child.

    Let me see, the missus, by close mate Mike, Jon, Dave... ... Ellen, Shell... nah I completely ignore extroverts

    My family are extroverts. It doesn't stop my favourite relative being the INFJ who rarely calls or visits and tends to forget things like calling back, birthdays etc.

    I like extroverts and extroverted things (like cars) because of the feedback and because it's entertaining.
    That's a lot more offensive than you realize, I think.

    But I also like coffee, I still wouldn't use it as shampoo.
    A bit more dramatic than the actual difference I think...

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    ... I also like coffee, I still wouldn't use it as shampoo.
    I would.

    *swoons over coffee*
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I would.

    *swoons over coffee*
    lol, I know really, that would be a nice pick-me-up in the morning huh? Wash your hair with coffee, and then get out and have a cup of it!

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