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  1. #31
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    "it is what it is."
    I'd be a rich man if I got a penny for everytime I said that.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Si is perception function, not unconscious decision making function
    So you don't think Si plays a part in guiding someone to repeat a sensory pattern irrationally?

  3. #33
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I disagree with @INTP. I think what @Qlip is talking about is Si. He doesn't just remember where his old seat is, he keeps subconsciously heading back to it, like it "feels right" to him.

    Si makes the too low higher, the too high lower. Everyday objects do take on an almost mythical quality, like your mosquito story of seeing the mosquito as all these things instead of just seeing a mosquito. It actually think these are both Si. I don't think @Qlip was specifically talking about memory or his ability to remember.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    your post says its somehow related to memory, jung says that its an subjective predisposition to sense perception and using that subjective factor as an determining factor over just perceiving 'what is' in the external world and separates memory from functions.

    for example, when you see an mosquito, you see an small flying evil retard fucker thats really stubborn and wants to suck your blood at any cost who makes your skin itchy and makes annoying sound etc etc

    now im not saying that an Se user cant understand that mosquito is like that, they just see an mosquito and can remember that a mosquito does those things and tries to suck your blood causing itchy skin. Se user can think, feel or remember those things related to mosquito, but he doesent see those things when he sees a mosquito, like Si user does.

    "As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus."
    Marm understands. Memory has something to do with it.. you can only remember what you perceive. And I perceive Si. This is really inefficient for memorizing suburban mazes.

    When I see a tree on a corner lot in the distance, I don't say.. I remember that tree. I have to project myself there and feel if it kicks off associations and feeling that I felt while walking under it. If it 'pings' it means that's where I came from and I should walk that direction.

    And then I have to use the 'force' once again to get myself going the right direction. It gives navigating a very mystical quality, where I'm following memories of feelings and impressions not memories of objects.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Marm understands. Memory has something to do with it.. you can only remember what you perceive. And I perceive Si. This is really inefficient for memorizing suburban mazes.

    When I see a tree on a corner lot in the distance, I don't say.. I remember that tree. I have to project myself there and feel if it kicks off associations and feeling that I felt while walking under it. If it 'pings' it means that's where I came from and I should walk that direction.

    And then I have to use the 'force' once again to get myself going the right direction. It gives navigating a very mystical quality, where I'm following memories of feelings and impressions not memories of objects.
    Yes! Si has a mystical quality for me too! Hmm...

    Anyway, I was waiting for @INTP to give his answer to whether or not he believed that Si could be responsible for irrational sensing patterns, and I got impatient and decided to point out to him that Jung points to inferior Si in Ne doms for giving them addictions, obsessions, and compulsions. If that's not the dark side of an irrational sensing pattern, I don't know what is.

  5. #35
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    I love my Si, but it gives me a hard time with maps and directions. Everything goes fine if I keep my Si on a tight leash and let Te do its thing, but the moment Si is in charge, I end up with a bunch of very strong feelings about which vague direction to head towards and no idea in the end how I reached my destination.

    It is like having an autopilot function that I can't turn off- great when I'm familiar with the area, but a complete nuisance when I'm somewhere I don't recognize. I keep defaulting on my prior sense memories and end up confusing the hell out of myself. Plus its a nightmare to use when giving directions to other people, whenever I try to describe my Si directions to my friends I get these blank looks, long pauses and "uh, I think I'll wait for you to come get me".

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Um I don't know if this is because the language barrier, but Jung explicitly states that Si doesn't see something just as it objectively is, but with a subjective internal impression.

    You know my ESFJ friend said she was confused until just recently by the statement "it is what it is." She was like, "what the fuck does that even mean?"

    SJ
    jung said:

    sensation tells you that something is
    thinking tells you what it is
    feeling tells you what it is worth, whether it is acceptable or not
    intuition tells you where it came from and where it is going
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #37
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    So you don't think Si plays a part in guiding someone to repeat a sensory pattern irrationally?
    Si is about how you perceive, not something that makes you strive to perceive certain things over and over again. deciding to do something multiple times is an decision making process, even if its done unconsciously, Si is perceiving
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Si is about how you perceive, not something that makes you strive to perceive certain things over and over again. deciding to do something multiple times is an decision making process, even if its done unconsciously, Si is perceiving
    Jung says inferior Si gives Ne doms compulsions and addictions. I am calling your bullshit, seriously.

  9. #39
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Marm understands. Memory has something to do with it.. you can only remember what you perceive. And I perceive Si. This is really inefficient for memorizing suburban mazes.

    When I see a tree on a corner lot in the distance, I don't say.. I remember that tree. I have to project myself there and feel if it kicks off associations and feeling that I felt while walking under it. If it 'pings' it means that's where I came from and I should walk that direction.

    And then I have to use the 'force' once again to get myself going the right direction. It gives navigating a very mystical quality, where I'm following memories of feelings and impressions not memories of objects.
    now you are talking about Si. but holy cow, not using differentiated T with it makes it sound weird.

    but explain how this:

    I have a recent ridiculous story from my life.

    A couple weeks ago I moved into a new house. There's a shopping center close by, and I walk there.

    The first time I came back, I walked down the wrong street. I live on the fourth, this one is the third. That's okay, right?

    Yeah it was okay two weeks ago. Ive turned down the third street four or five times now, its like a goddamn sketch comedy. One time I even walked all the way to the end and am all like where is my house? LMAO.

    Okay but yesterday when I did it I caught it soon, and Im like Jesus christ Si fail.

    Si makes the same mistake over and over again cuz it just feels right to turn down the third street!

    If I had proper use of Si Id remember to go the right way instead of repeatedly the wrong way.

    Jesus.
    in other words taking the wrong turn multiple times has to do with Si?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #40
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Jung says inferior Si gives Ne doms compulsions and addictions. I am calling your bullshit, seriously.
    jung says:

    "These make themselves felt when, for instance, the intuitive suddenly finds himself entangled with a highly unsuitable woman-or, in the case of woman, with unsuitable man-because these persons have stirred archaic sensations. This leads to an unconscious, compulsive tie which bodes nobody any good. Cases of this kind are themselves symptomatic of compulsion, to which the intuitive type is as prone to as the sensation type."

    In other words you stay in relationship with someone because he/she reminds you of your ex in some ways you cant consciously see.


    " Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior—he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type—only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of compulsive hypochondriacal ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation."

    these compulsive hypochondriacal ideas arent an product of Si, its obviously about N

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/o
    In Jung’s model of typology, a thinking attitude is oriented by the principle of logic; a sensation attitude is oriented by the direct perception of concrete facts; intuition orients itself to future possibilities; and feeling is governed by subjective worth.
    even tho there is some sensation in the bottom of those hypochondriac ideas, but the idea itself is about perceiving possibilities and believing in them, which is N. you can see similar thing with all N doms(and aux to some, but usually lesser degree), they tend to assume things and orient themselves according to these assumptions.

    where did you see jung saying that Si gives addiction to Ne dom? anyways, like i mentioned Si is perceiving functions, it does not make decisions, but i dont disagree that it cant make you see something in a way that would distort your judgment, but its the judgment that decides things, not perception. also these compulsions jung is talking about are mental compulsions, not physical compulsions that you see in OCD.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

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