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  1. #21
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    and i dont see how they are even remotely the same
    Your post explains what it is, mine explains my experience in having it. There's not enough data to say they aren't the same.

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Your post explains what it is, mine explains my experience in having it. There's not enough data to say they aren't the same.
    your post says its somehow related to memory, jung says that its an subjective predisposition to sense perception and using that subjective factor as an determining factor over just perceiving 'what is' in the external world and separates memory from functions.

    for example, when you see an mosquito, you see an small flying evil retard fucker thats really stubborn and wants to suck your blood at any cost who makes your skin itchy and makes annoying sound etc etc

    now im not saying that an Se user cant understand that mosquito is like that, they just see an mosquito and can remember that a mosquito does those things and tries to suck your blood causing itchy skin. Se user can think, feel or remember those things related to mosquito, but he doesent see those things when he sees a mosquito, like Si user does.

    "As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus."
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #23
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I don't even know what Si means exactly. None of the definitions are clear to me. Same with Ni, other than Ni is something very removed from my typical groundedness and kind of freaks me out.

  4. #24
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    I disagree with @INTP. I think what @Qlip is talking about is Si. He doesn't just remember where his old seat is, he keeps subconsciously heading back to it, like it "feels right" to him.

    Si makes the too low higher, the too high lower. Everyday objects do take on an almost mythical quality, like your mosquito story of seeing the mosquito as all these things instead of just seeing a mosquito. It actually think these are both Si. I don't think @Qlip was specifically talking about memory or his ability to remember.

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    On the real, though, last night I made myself analyze *why* I kept having this sense impression and doing this action, as I was walking past it, and noticed that, yeah, it's about the way the street looks. It's very "open" and has the nice house with the nice gate, while my street isn't bad or anything, both of sides of it are really obscured by trees and vines. They look nothing alike, they just happen to be a short block apart from one another, and I guess the street I accidentally kept turning down was more favorable to me on some level, like I actually preferred the way it looked, some casual judgment of preference making me think it was correct.

    I still think repeating a sensory pattern would qualify as Si, especially if it was irrational, and felt "right" to you. It's not the feeling of "omg where am I, I am so lost" it's more like "herp derp derp, let's turn down this street, la la la."

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Holy shit. Brainfart. Just a jumble of words to me, with the ocassional "objective" and "subjective" scattered about.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Holy shit. Brainfart. Just a jumble of words to me, with the ocassional "objective" and "subjective" scattered about.
    Basically Si is not just what it is, it is the sensing object, but with a deep sense of how the object "should be" attached to it, so in essence the Si dom can drive others mad with his nit-picking in his quest to make things "just right" for himself (like Goldilocks with the Three Bears), but not necessarily out of a sense of maliciousness; however, this is why SJs can be perceived as "critical" (and well sometimes they are, but that criticism tends to be exercised by Fe or Te upon others, making ESxJs more bothersome to some types) ...however, the ISxJ still has a perception of what should be properly contained and so forth, and if he makes this too apparent, other people can get irritated and mistreat him or her, and being an introvert and not a dominant judger, they can accept this "abuse" passively, only resisting with a seemingly surprising extreme stubbornness.

    And maybe you can get through this part, untouched, as I believe it is quite important (it shows how Si and Ni are equally symbolic, but the Si type accepts the symbolism as reality, while the Ni type creates symbolism to represent reality):

    Actually he moves in a mythological world, where men animals, railways, houses, rivers, and mountains appear partly as benevolent deities and partly as malevolent demons. That thus they, appear to him never enters his mind, although their effect upon his judgments and acts can bear no other interpretation. He judges and acts as though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that his sensations are totally different from reality. If his tendency is to reason objectively, he will sense this difference as morbid; but if, on the other hand, he remains faithful to his irrationality, and is prepared to grant his sensation reality value, the objective world will appear a mere make-belief and a comedy. Only in extreme cases, however, is this dilemma reached. As a rule, the individual acquiesces in his isolation and in the banality of the reality, which, however, he unconsciously treats archaically.
    It's hard for me to separate Si from Fi, realistically, in people though. Like being close to high Fi ISTJ I see just how particular his tastes and how deeply impressed upon him and refined they are. But unlike the INFP who puts stock in the ego of their Fi preferences and may think these particular tastes make them so special and misunderstood and sensitive, the high Fi ISTJ is just quietly but stubbornly solid and secure in the "rightness" of his preferences, because Si is concerned with a subjective "correctness."

    Both can come across as pretentious as fuck to someone who doesn't agree with them, but to someone who understands or agrees in generalities with their peculiarities of taste, it can seem like a deep and admirable trait, a real talent for the aesthetic. I think this is why Jung says Si doms have great potential to be artists (despite Keirsey calling ISFP the artists).

    Jung's definition says NOTHING about memory, but I believe the association with memory comes from what he refers to as the archetypical or mythical subconscious projection on to the object, which naturally comes from one's personal past experiences, herp derp derp, and this may create preferences or patterns that are repeated because they feel "just so" to Si.

    But it's not strictly about memory or memorization, no.

  8. #28
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I disagree with INTP. I think what Qlip is talking about is Si. He doesn't just remember where his old seat is, he keeps subconsciously heading back to it, like it "feels right" to him.
    Si is perception function, not unconscious decision making function
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #29
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Basically Si is not just what it is
    T tells what something is, S just tells that something is
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    T tells what something is, S just tells that something is
    Um I don't know if this is because the language barrier, but Jung explicitly states that Si doesn't see something just as it objectively is, but with a subjective internal impression.

    You know my ESFJ friend said she was confused until just recently by the statement "it is what it is." She was like, "what the fuck does that even mean?"

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