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Thread: INTJ vs INTP

  1. #81
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    So calling people irrational is unconscionable (bad Jung!), but calling them callous and inhuman, well, that's just helpful feedback.

    If I had a heart, and/or thought the greenfairy ever knew what it was talking about, I might take offence at that.
    As it is...
    I was speaking figuratively and making a joke. And I don't value your opinion anymore, because you've shown that you know what I'm talking about even less often than you think I do.

    So it would hypothetically bother you to be called callous and inhuman, but your admitted preferred way of interacting with people is harsh and insulting? That's a bit of hypocrisy.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Your assessment agrees with this supposedly INFJ-generated theory in regard to INTP, but not INTJ. Many see the expectation of anything warm and cuddly inside INTJs as wishful thinking. The "warm and fuzzy" designation, however, is reserved for NFs.
    Yeah. I hadn't actually seen it. I think every type has a warm cuddly/squishy side to them. Just because everyone has emotions, and is vulnerable at times. All types like human relationships, and have to be vulnerable now and then. If you get close to someone you see that side of them now and then. That's all I meant by the expression. But yes, I admit I do have some wishful thinking in that I like to imagine I can make friends with people who end up just not being interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In any case, my comment was meant as a joke.
    Missed that.

  3. #83
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    I think that the below post by uumlau would make a fine addition to this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    One of the things to keep in mind with respect to "trust in [one's] thought processes" is that INFPs and INTPs share a tertiary Si, which has some rather odd effects, in particular the effect of making it difficult to "unlearn" bad information. In INTPs, this shows up when, no matter how much evidence one presents, the evidence is rejected when it contradicts "known facts" (Si). Part of the problem is that it doesn't matter that the known facts are wrong, because it takes a lot of work to rebuild the mental framework. It's a very trustworthy framework, and changing to a new one takes a lot of time and effort, therefore, such individuals tend to force others to prove that it's worth their time and effort. In INFPs, it isn't a structure of facts and data and logic, but of feelings and impressions and understandings. For both INTPs and INFPs, these structures are intrinsic, and not very far from one's sense of identity.

    INxJs can be stubborn cusses, but interestingly don't seem to have this problem. If new facts (Te, Fe, Se) appear that contradict assumptions, then the INxJ "troubleshoots" the assumptions, looks for the key item that is "incorrect" (which can be hard to put into words, because other people cannot see our thought flows), and fix it. This is how I troubleshoot software on a daily basis: I don't assume it's correct, I assume that it demonstrably works pretty good, but might contain functional flaws. I think it's the "functional" bit that doesn't jibe with INxP thought patterns. It's more "is" than "functional". Undoing "is" means changing things intrinsically, while undoing "functional" is just a matter of substituting in a corrected process.

    I think for INFPs, the answer is to "listen closely" to oneself, and listen for sounds and echoes that indicate that something "isn't right". Don't stop listening, because it's the listening (Fi, believe it or not) that will hear where the Si-crystal is fractured, and if you hear it long enough, then it will convince you that it's wrong, and let you know where the problem lies. Then make whatever adjustment seems correct, and then continue listening: you might have missed something, or even made something worse. INTPs need to do something similar, but I would label it "internal thinking" (what else?!), where they're thinking over their own logical patterns, looking for Si faults.

    Just remember that "listening" is a key Fi strength, just as being able to instantly synthesize data into an integrated understanding is an Ni strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I think that the below post by uumlau would make a fine addition to this thread:
    As a Ti-user (makes it sound like heroin), I see what he is saying.

    the issue is this, and it happens to me at work a lot:

    I build a whole framework based on the facts you give me, to make a perfect output.

    If suddenly you come to me and change a fact, you invalidate the whole perfect system, because it is all tied in. I get irritated, because I take instructions very precisely, and can't just quickly "undo" a whole system, to make it work. I can do it, but it will take time.

    the INTJ may be more adaptable int hat situation, but their system will be more £functional" and less perfect.

    Ultimately, we're suited to different fields. I will give a perfect translation of a 20,00 word text.

    I'm not so good at giving a snappy, effective press release based on little info about audience or the client.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Thoughts?
    I watched 23 seconds of the video. It was torture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I watched 23 seconds of the video. It was torture.
    Torture in monotone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    As a Ti-user (makes it sound like heroin), I see what he is saying.

    the issue is this, and it happens to me at work a lot:

    I build a whole framework based on the facts you give me, to make a perfect output.

    If suddenly you come to me and change a fact, you invalidate the whole perfect system, because it is all tied in. I get irritated, because I take instructions very precisely, and can't just quickly "undo" a whole system, to make it work. I can do it, but it will take time.

    the INTJ may be more adaptable int hat situation, but their system will be more £functional" and less perfect.

    Ultimately, we're suited to different fields. I will give a perfect translation of a 20,00 word text.

    I'm not so good at giving a snappy, effective press release based on little info about audience or the client.
    Output perfect for what? When one develops a system that is “perfect” for some hypothetical, ideal universe, he necessarily creates an imperfect system in our "less ideal" universe (to the extent that the two universes differ). As an INTP, I am focused on creating systems that are as perfect as they can be, but as an Actuary, I recognize the limited precision and accuracy of our inputs and adjust my systems accordingly. Thus, I strive to create systems that are as perfect as they can be in the practical sense.

    If you’re frustrated by having to go back and change what you’ve already created, consider developing variable (multidimensional) systems to start with. Instead of having the foundation be “the way the world should be,” recognize the way the world is. Of course, this means you’ll need to rely on data more, since you can’t just rely on hand-wavy assumptions, and you’ll need to spend a great deal of time anticipating what is likely to affect your system, but in the end you’ll get a better product.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Output perfect for what? When one develops a system that is “perfect” for some hypothetical, ideal universe, he necessarily creates an imperfect system in our "less ideal" universe
    Perfect as in perfectly meeting what I was asked for and the situation at hand. If it wasn't I wouldn't keep getting work.

  9. #89
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    Maybe you're cheep?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #90
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    In my experience INTPs do seem to be less tough-minded than INTJs, but I'm not sure I can get on board with his explanation. This is due to my own personal battle the the MBTI theory about the third and fourth processes. I never liked them as I always felt they restricted the number of possible permutations without any really good inferred explanation for why.
    What he says has merit, but it's also explained by directing vs informing (Interaction Styles). The ISTP would also have the Fe, but they are the same Interaction Style as INTJ, so both will probably come off very similarly on the surface. INTP is the odd man out, of the IT's.
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    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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