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Thread: INTJ vs INTP

  1. #61
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Though much of the comparison has merit, Dawkins is INTJ, so it's misapplied. "The God Delusion" is a polemical rant, as are all of his anti-religious programmes. I couldn't get all the way through it, it was so toxic. They're both batshit crazy, but Hitchins is funnier.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Quoted with my own edit. Should you wish, I can go over your past posts and explain to you why I said what I did. Having seen you around the forum, I have developed a perception of you that strongly suggests you err on the side of "fuck these idiots" more often than you put forth the effort to seek clarity. It is true, though, that I cannot know what your true intentions are. Perhaps you respond in those ways to evoke in someone a strong defense of his/her argument, in your own way acquiring clarification. However, my guess is that you don't really care to know my reasons; I'm offering them up as a courtesy nonetheless.
    Do you really think anything about that post is courteous? I'm wondering if you just struggle to understand courtesy, or whether, as others suspect, you're simply a troll.
    You're slightly more subtle than most though. Probably because you're more needy when it comes to approval. You lurch between being solicitous and totally objectionable. It's slightly dizzying. You remind me of Gingko, in that respect. Same self-righteous preachiness too...
    I wonder what makes you think my internal dialogue is any business of yours? Do you really expect me to explain myself to you? Do you really expect me to be interested in the details of your failure to read my character? How curious! I think I've already shown exceptional tolerance and patience when it comes to you, don't push it.

    If you genuinely believe my attitude is one of "fuck these idiots", one has to wonder why you haven't put me on ignore (rather than the other way around) instead of repeatedly calling me into your threads. I mean, what could you possibly hope to gain from such a person, other than a giant "Fuck You!" ? Is that what you want? To be scolded? Some people are freaky that way... Perhaps you think attacking me will improve your standing in some way? Perhaps you think you'll provoke me into some infraction? You clearly want some kind of reaction. But you'll have to spell it out. Unlike you, I don't enjoy playing guessing games about people's motivations.

    Alternatively, might I suggest you focus more on the content of a discussion and less on your speculations about me. I think it would improve the quality of your posts considerably. It would certainly make you less ignorable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #62
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Do you really think anything about that post is courteous? I'm wondering if you just struggle to understand courtesy, or whether, as others suspect, you're simply a troll.
    You're slightly more subtle than most though. Probably because you're more needy when it comes to approval. You lurch between being solicitous and totally objectionable. It's slightly dizzying. You remind me of Gingko, in that respect. Same self-righteous preachiness too...
    I wonder what makes you think my internal dialogue is any business of yours? Do you really expect me to explain myself to you? Do you really expect me to be interested in the details of your failure to read my character? How curious! I think I've already shown exceptional tolerance and patience when it comes to you, don't push it.

    If you genuinely believe my attitude is one of "fuck these idiots", one has to wonder why you haven't put me on ignore (rather than the other way around) instead of repeatedly calling me into your threads. I mean, what could you possibly hope to gain from such a person, other than a giant "Fuck You!" ? Is that what you want? To be scolded? Some people are freaky that way... Perhaps you think attacking me will improve your standing in some way? Perhaps you think you'll provoke me into some infraction? You clearly want some kind of reaction. But you'll have to spell it out. Unlike you, I don't enjoy playing guessing games about people's motivations.

    Alternatively, might I suggest you focus more on the content of a discussion and less on your speculations about me. I think it would improve the quality of your posts considerably. It would certainly make you less ignorable.

    I assure you, by offering to provide my reasons for perceiving you the way that I do, I was being courteous. To the extent that a person cares about how others perceive her, she might wish, from time to time, to receive feedback with supporting evidence. This goes beyond a concern with image though, since our words and style have a profound influence on whether others are receptive to what we say, and to what extent we affect their lives. Those effects can be as small as putting someone in a poor mood for a time, or as large as opening them up to life changing information/experiences.

    I don’t know how I can convince you that I’m not a troll. I understand that some of my ideas are offensive on the surface, but I really try hard to explain my point of view and why I believe what I do. There are many complex ideas that underlie any one of the many beliefs I have (about child support, privacy rights, torture, vegetarianism, etc.), and it can be hard to present a clear idea of any one belief without getting into lots of details that a person might or might not be interested in. I say this to you now, as I’ve said before, I am not a troll. If this means you label me as incompetent or ignorant of proper courtesy, then I’m not sure what else I can do at this point.

    What does it mean for your internal dialogue to be “a business of mine”? I am interested in it because the way you approach people is unique, and I suppose I don’t have a good sense of why you say some of the things that you do. You are well read, well spoken, but very harsh. You have interesting things to say.

    I didn’t mean your general attitude was “fuck these idiots,” but when you are met with disagreement that seems to be where you go much of the time. I invited you into this thread because, when I did a search of INTJs and INTPs with large post counts, your name was one of many. I invited you into my thread about dating an illiterate girl because it related to your many threads on gender roles and I wanted your take. I respond to many of your threads because the topics are interesting.

    I don’t want a reaction from you. If you were banned from the forum I would be one of the people fighting for your reinstatement, as I’ve done with many others. I want to learn from you, and I believe that ultimately your intentions are good, even if the mods don’t always see it that way. For me, learning from someone is aided by learning about her as well. Context.

    As for putting anyone on ignore, I don’t see the point. What good would come of it?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    Saying INTPs are more concise than INTJs I'm unsure of at the moment. There are many elements to conciseness and it's just very hard to say that one type is, as a whole, more concise than the other (on average). For instance, INTPs can really logically boil something down into its very roots and most basic elements. They are more equipped to do this than an INTJ. However, because of their need to be precise they may explain something in a very complicated manner just to be as precise as possible. And because they're good at seeing satellite possibilities, they may go off on tangents to account for them.
    This is consistent with my experience. I really hate to oversimplify things - when I'm trying to explain something complex in its nature, I tend to give all meaningful information about it (while keeping redundancy as low as possible), and it sometimes results in more confusion than understanding on the part of the listener. Other times, when explaining something not that complex (in my judgement), I give as little information as necessary to fully describe it, and leave it for listeners to figure out the implications. In my experience that works well with technical and scientific kinds of people, and bad with most others.

    @Salomé
    Regardless of what is happening in your head, I can tell you how it looks from the outside: Your posts often seem arrogant and impolite towards others, without provocation. Why is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rad3k View Post
    @Salomé
    Regardless of what is happening in your head, I can tell you how it looks from the outside: Your posts often seem arrogant and impolite towards others, without provocation. Why is that?
    I was just wondering the same exact thing. Good thing this isn't a universal INTP trait!

    Anyway, a lot of the INTPs on this site (other types included) have had some very dumb posts, not just posts to be funny, but kind of like what you described above.

    I'm glad you are here to represent the INTPs, because without people like you who actually make good and/or intelligent posts (like in the God philosophy thread or in the God Omnipotence thread), they would be doomed to a lonely life of self-supremacy, without the affections of others, not that you need to agree with everybody (I actually encourage others into challenges), but you shouldn't act like a dog (one already got scolded here twice)!

  5. #65
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rad3k View Post
    @Salomé
    Regardless of what is happening in your head, I can tell you how it looks from the outside: Your posts often seem arrogant and impolite towards others, without provocation. Why is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I was just wondering the same exact thing. Good thing this isn't a universal INTP trait!
    Maybe she's an IXFP.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Hitchens is more liekly to be a P than Dawkins.

    Dawkins is almost the stereotype of xNTJ.

    Hitchens is either INTJ or ENTP.

  7. #67
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    They (INTP and INTJ) can both be tertiary-loop INFJ's in disguise...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmbQr...ldtow&index=17
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfylUjBZfvA
    http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=7016


    If the descriptions of the two books are true, I think they are consistent with and indicative of the types. Have either of the two of them been asked what they think their types are?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Who's more stupid, the stupid one or the one who thinks he's smart enough to label others as stupid?
    I believe that those who feel the need to call others stupid/illogical/irrational are insecure. It's projection of the shadow self onto another person, for the purpose of destroying it.

    And here is a wise Epicurean saying: In a joint philosophical investigation he who is defeated comes out ahead in so far as he has learned something new.

    If you constantly call others stupid and illogical, then you discount their point of view. If yours ever fails, you have little else to turn to. If you never acknowledge defeat, you never learn.

    I've been criticized in all sorts of ways on this forum, and I've learned a lot from it.

  9. #69
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    This has got to be one of the most accurate and lucid descriptions of the differences between INTJs and INTPs that I've ever seen.


    @Jennifer @Salomé @ygolo @Red Herring @lowtech redneck @EffEmDoubleyou @Zarathustra @Magic Poriferan @The Ü @phobik @Nicodemus @SmileyMan

    Thoughts?
    Look at this fucking guy - didn't even bother including me on the list.
    So much for INTPs "externally based emotions."
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  10. #70
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Dawkins is almost the stereotype of xNTJ.

    Hitchens is either INTJ or ENTP.
    Hitchens seems more NFJ to me. I agree about Dawkins.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I believe that those who feel the need to call others stupid/illogical/irrational are insecure. It's projection of the shadow self onto another person, for the purpose of destroying it.
    People who do this are lazy. They are unwilling to take the time to point out just what is stupid, illogical, or irrational about what the other person has said, so they just slap an unsupported label on it. It would be better for them just to say they disagree, but can't be bothered to elaborate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Look at this fucking guy - didn't even bother including me on the list.
    So much for INTPs "externally based emotions."
    I wasn't included either, but sometimes it is preferable to be under the radar.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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