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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    Yah i have a pretty difficult time identifying with the socionics type descriptions. When i test i most often have the result of INFp though looking through several of the type descriptions (including (SEE) ESFp for good measure) the best fit is ENFp which is my second highest on test results.

    I don't identify with the ENFj, INFp, ESFj type descriptions either.

    I have not looked further into it though and believe the subtypes may be able to smooth out some creases as i'm not entirely happy with the ENFp (IEE) description, it's just best fit from the options.


    Going on the basics my dual would be ISTp (poss ISTJ in mbti or even ISTP) but yeah, subtypes would play into that too.

    In reality i'm with a socionics INTp (mbti INTJ).


    Oh, just saw this... it really does resonate with me. I was infact talking about exactly this the other night....

    ""In formal or unfamiliar situations, IEEs typically try at first to appear very organized, controlled, “with it,” and mobilized for action. They hide their usual spontaneity and warmth and put on the controlled, serious mask of a resolute, action-oriented person. They do this to avoid potentially painful criticism from representatives of society at large (i.e. from the strangers they are dealing with). This state of mind is emotionally taxing, and after they are sure the people they are dealing with have accepted them and don’t intend to criticize them, IEEs loosen up and allow themselves once again to be spontaneous, frivolous, friendly, witty, and engagingly enthusiastic about their personal interests."

    I do this frequently, i dress formally and am make-up perfect when meeting people or going to job interviews etc the first two or three times, i was describing it as social masking. Thinking i put on the mask of an ISTJ in such situations.
    I actually relate a lot to ISFp description too on the socionics web site (which sounds more like ISFP than ISFj, which sounds like ISFJ.. actually the ISFj Socionics Guardian fits JTG perfectly ...so I'm not so sure the introverts don't match, because overall they sound *somewhat* similar so I'm very suspicious about this supposed aspect of socionics that flip-flops)...and I relate more to INFp than ENFp for some reason.

    So I'd say I relate most to ESFp, ISFp, and INFp on the Socionics site. I'm actually a lot like the ISFp description, except I'm more confrontational and honest like the ESFp. I'm just not this neutral peacemaker E9.

    ISFps generally appear to be soft-hearted, but can become quite assertive if required. Their facial expression can change suddenly and unexpectedly from friendly one to a stern one, especially when they wish to distance themselves psychologically from someone. ISFps are often inclined to give advise concerning will power and initiative.

    ISFps have a well developed aesthetic taste. Their clothes are usually neat, colourful and radiate a warm, comfortable feeling. They like to touch things in order to appreciate their physical qualities. When interacting with others ISFps try to maintain a closeness. They are often outwardly sociable, charming and friendly. They know well how to endear themselves to others and how to make people trust them. They prefer to interact in a democratic fashion, avoiding the spotlight.

    ISFps do not usually try to push friendships. If they feel that a person does not want to establish contact with them they do not insist. They usually make just one attempt and if it is not successful they hardly ever try again. They maintain contact only with people that they find interesting. ISFps find it fairly difficult to interact with people that they dislike, even if it goes against their interests. In these situations they lose their personal magnetism, and their speech may become unintelligible.

    ISFps enjoy gathering and sharing interacting facts and news. However, they always add a certain degree of colour to their narrative hoping to make it more interesting. This is the reason that ISFps are rarely caught telling a story the same way twice. They can easily talk about a single subject for a considerable amount of time, especially about their recent experiences. They also like to read a variety of newspapers.

    ISFps have a strong desire to experience as much as they can and to enjoy themselves as much as possible. They love spending time and having fun with their friends, often joking and playing pranks. They do not like to be the centre of attention, but they also do not like to be too far away from where it is all happening. ISFps behaviour can be so independent and original that they may confuse and bewilder other people. Because of this people can consider ISFps to be light-minded.

    ISFps can usually only be productive when working for themselves. In all other cases it is rare for them to work hard. They try their best to avoid strenuous physical exercises wherever possible, unless it is in the course of a particular sporting activity that they enjoy.

    But then there's all this stuff about being in the middle and not voicing opinions, and that's not me, though I do avoid drama and confrontation more IRL.

    Still I'm either

    At home INFps can be very frivolous and capricious, showing great stubbornness in getting what they want, sometimes creating dramas and scenes. These emotional outbursts are usually short and disappear without consequences. Generally they have very flexible emotions which they control consciously.
    or

    ESFps often react with aggression and hostility when others try to impose rules, limits or discipline on them. They also become very irritated when criticised for their caprices or illogical behaviour. They become equally irritated if someone attempts to question their behaviour or prove their irrationality.

    When interacting with others, ESFps openly demonstrate their real feelings towards others. However their feelings are very flexible and changeable. For example, after an argument that would end most relationships they may, after sometime, apologise and then behave as if nothing ever happened.

    In moments of depression, which are not so rare, ESFps like to complain to others that they are not as people think they are and that this is the reason they are often misunderstood. In situations such as these their eyes can become glazed and distant.

    In company ESFps like to provoke positive emotions in others. However they do not like to entertain people by themselves, but will willingly sustain an easy atmosphere. ESFps are normally very talkative and sociable. They often talk about many different subjects.


    In any system I appear to be some kind of FP. I've noticed in a lot of the holistic type descriptions I tend to sit on the fence somewhere between ESFP and ISFP. I'm not a huge fan of socionics because of all of the tying looks to personality, it just seems overly detailed, like it's simply not possible that people look that much like a certain personality AND have the same intereactions with all these lists of types.

    I look at Socionics web sites and I think...


  2. #12
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    INFPs are great to talk to about certain things but you constantly have to tip toe around their feelings which can get exhausting.
    You hurt my feelings with that!!

    @Marmotini

    ESFps often react with aggression and hostility when others try to impose rules, limits or discipline on them. They also become very irritated when criticised for their caprices or illogical behaviour. They become equally irritated if someone attempts to question their behaviour or prove their irrationality.

    When interacting with others, ESFps openly demonstrate their real feelings towards others. However their feelings are very flexible and changeable. For example, after an argument that would end most relationships they may, after sometime, apologise and then behave as if nothing ever happened.

    In moments of depression, which are not so rare, ESFps like to complain to others that they are not as people think they are and that this is the reason they are often misunderstood. In situations such as these their eyes can become glazed and distant.

    In company ESFps like to provoke positive emotions in others. However they do not like to entertain people by themselves, but will willingly sustain an easy atmosphere. ESFps are normally very talkative and sociable. They often talk about many different subjects.
    That sounds like it just described me perfectly.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Yeah in Socionics I'm an SEE...but I'd be an Fi subtype, which would be more like an Fi dom amirite? Then they have all these lists of people you're supposed to get along with in a particular way, and I'm not especially buying it..
    Your outspokenness, as well as your values on hustling/go getter-ness (lol.. in yourself or in others) would point more to Se and Te quadra. That doesn't mean ISFPs are necessarily Se in socionics though. In your ISFP stereotype thread, the "Sofia Coppola" and the couch potato would more easily fit an Alpha SF, ISFp. They're the more artsy/hippy/diplomatic types. They're also still Te inferior... or Te Polr. Which more or less means oblivious to using that type of information. Not merely bad.

  4. #14
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Oh wait this doesn't even apply to you. You're an INTP not an INTp. You're supposed to find a nice ESFJ (but usually they say INTPs end up with ISFJs instead).
    We aren't really sure whether he's an INTj or INTp... he hasn't necessarily specified that little detail.

    But yeah, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, with the exception of relating to INFp somewhat. I do relate strongly to ISFp, but I only act diplomatic and "in the middle" about things when I get afraid or unhealthy.

    I have a question for you, do you relate to ISFp a lot in general, or do you feel that you might relate to that description more when you're depressed, and angry to a point where you feel like imploding? Because in stress SEEs lash out with their Si and Fe. So if the SEE is frequently stressed... he could relate to the SEI description somewhat. That's what was happening to me... I used to go through huge bouts of depression and stress, and didn't really have a way to get through it without just waiting it out. I am perfectly capable of being diplomatic and in the middle of things if I need to be, but it's not really what I want to be doing most of the time. I'm pretty opinionated, and do enjoy taking sides on issues; and feel that you forge bonds with people based on some of these things. I also do really enjoy relaxing and chilling with friends, but that's more of a thing that I do to "tone down" and isn't really my natural drive. My natural drive I feel is to actually be doing things. Too much relaxing makes me crazy. More than one day off at work in a row drives me nuts because there is nothing going on. This isn't SEI at all.

    I also am much more aware of Te in my life than Ti. I think you're the same way... Ti is very unconscious and unused for me socionics wise. I do often think about how efficient things are, what the best way of doing something is; but I get really annoyed when I have to think systematically, and follow a specific way of doing things. I'd say it fits you pretty well, a Hidden Agenda Te (which is where Te is at for SEE and IEE).

    I can't really say you seem to value much Fe in a socionics sense. You don't seem to enjoy emoting for the sake of it, or that from others. You may be good at picking up on these things and may be comfortable doing it, but that's because Fe would be our demonstrative.

    Lol the thing about the extreme details is that you need to actually understand ALL of them to understand socionics, and then the relationships start making sense. You have to understand the functions and how they play out. Where you go in stress, how you are in certain situations, etc.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    The subtypes just make it too convoluted to be useful (imo). I'm not even sure I'm SLI-Te or LSI-Se. They're both adept at many of the same functions, and both can demonstrate each other's activities at different times. And I'm not alone on the confusion. I see a lot of celebrities who get typed as both too. Many people don't agree on the types of say, Keith Richards or Joan Jett. While you look at Ti Sub LSIs, they're entirely different than Se. Vladmir Putin is generally agreed to be Ti sub LSI. I know a few people like Putin. I never get along with them.

  6. #16
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I seem to be an ESFP magnet and I read that INTP/ESFPs are duals.
    Same. I theorize that we don't give them as much attention as other people do and then they get intrigued. Then interested.
    They seem like really, really unlikely companions though.
    Indeed.
    Any insight?
    -Being a sx/so, you will likely enjoy their ''intensity'' better than me.
    -Ns seem understand me on a much deeper level than sensors.
    -Not every NF is emo.

  7. #17
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    I seem to be an ESFP magnet and I read that INTP/ESFPs are duals. They seem like really, really unlikely companions though. Any insight?
    It's a matter of balancing each other out, and bringing something to the table that the other lacks entirely, yet unconsciously seeks. With a dual, in theory, everything pretty much falls into place. Duals in the theory are basically designed to deal with each others' downfalls.

    These ESFPs you could be meeting may not be socionics ESFps at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    So Socionics INTp is opposite from MBTI INTP n terms of Ti/Ne?
    Socionics INTp's ego functions are Ni and Te... so yes that would differ from MBTI's INTP (since socionics and MBTI deal with things pretty differently in the first place anyways...). I've seen INTPs be INTj, INTp, ENTp, and pretty rarely ESTj, actually (those TiSi ones who are a lot more serious than you'd expect). So I'd just do a bit of research first before really delving into it.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #18
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    We aren't really sure whether he's an INTj or INTp... he hasn't necessarily specified that little detail.

    Well I test originally as INTJ for Myers Briggs and ILI in socionics. But after reading up on types I'm very, very much an INTP. But from what you guys are saying about socionics I'm totally lost. Ti is definitely my dominant function followed by Ne.

    Also I'm female. Not that it matters. Though it is interesting that everyone thinks I'm male.

  9. #19
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    Don't listen to their shit about socionics. Read the descriptions. An ILI sounds like a fucking INTP. Same with all of the other types.

    People here just get all confused because they over-identify with individual MBTI functions in isolation (a mistake, IMO), and since they turn up slightly different in socionics, it's like they've lost all bearing. But really, the damn types are the same.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #20
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Also I'm female. Not that it matters. Though it is interesting that everyone thinks I'm male.
    Alright, now I don't feel so weird anymore.

    Anyway, duality is sort of a fantasy. Opposites don't attract, it's just not how things play out in real life. People want to associate with other people of similar intelligence and socio-economic status. The more differences there are, the more potential exists for trouble. Duality gives us unrealistic expectations from people that are completely different from ourselves.
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