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Thread: Is Ni like Fi?

  1. #51
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    LOL! But I'm an NF!

    I'm sure to an INTP or INTJ or anyone else period, it's quite a rational thought.

    You disagree?
    I'm not talking about NFs. I'm talking in Jungian terms. The point of the article emphasizes seeming, defining it as perception. And no, I'm not talking about what something seems to be. It's the simple process of seeming that is irrational.

  2. #52
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I'm not talking about NFs. I'm talking in Jungian terms. The point of the article emphasizes seeming, defining it as perception. And no, I'm not talking about what something seems to be. It's the simple process of seeming that is irrational.
    So, the point is though, that those are irrational examples of thinking, right?

    And I'd say they are quite rational to most everyone today.
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  3. #53
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So, the point is though, that those are irrational examples of thinking, right?

    And I'd say they are quite rational to most everyone today.
    Those are not Jungian © rational. We can discuss colloquial "rational" if you wish, but the understanding of two definitions doesn't deny one the use of the same term for each. Webster's does the same thing. What's important is the crux of meaning.

    And honestly, even by the colloquial "rational", I wouldn't say those are rational forms of cognition. Their categorization is though. Rationality isn't a sensation, it depends on inductive reasoning and deductive reasoning, the former being the latter's precursor. A "very rational person" is someone who uses reason with clarity. However, inductive reasoning does depend on sensation.

  4. #54
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I'd say it's fairly obvious that Si doms judge.
    I think they percieve "forms" to things, a shape or way things should be.. not necessarily concepts that they reasoned through, but something more visceral, comfort oriented, and idealistic. You might challenge one and just get brushed aside, and get an answer along the lines that they simply think that's how something should be. I don't think it's as bad as the "tradition" stereotype though, where we can really pinpoint how they see things from a collective view. "This is they we've always done it." Some might think that way, but I think even Si can be unpredictable and peculiar. Especially with day to day things. They might get in the habit of running their house a certain way. Try to come up with something more efficient, and they might get pissed. That isn't reasonable judgement at least.

  5. #55
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Those are not Jungian © rational. We can discuss colloquial "rational" if you wish, but the understanding of two definitions doesn't deny one the use of the same term for each. Webster's does the same thing. What's important is the crux of meaning.

    And honestly, even by the colloquial "rational", I wouldn't say those are rational forms of cognition. Their categorization is though. Rationality doesn't depend on sensations, it depends on inductive reasoning and deductive reasoning, the former being the latter's precursor. A "very rational person" is someone who uses reason with clarity.

    If those are irrational, how can Feeling be rational then?

    Jungian terms or no, don't definitions sometimes bust out of their own skin, and need new descriptors?


    *sigh* I will have to go pull out my book now. And relearn those definitions and try to get in Jung's head. It isn't difficult for modern-day folk to reason that the earth has a moon, for God's sake (is that taking the Lord's name in vain? ).
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #56
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I think they percieve "forms" to things, a shape or way things should be.. not necessarily concepts that they reasoned through, but something more visceral, comfort oriented, and idealistic. You might challenge one and just get brushed aside, and get an answer along the lines that they simply think that's how something should be. I don't think it's as bad as the "tradition" stereotype though, where we can really pinpoint how they see things from a collective view. "This is they we've always done it." Some might think that way, but I think even Si can be unpredictable and peculiar. Especially with day to day things. They might get in the habit of running their house a certain way. Try to come up with something more efficient, and they might get pissed. That isn't reasonable judgement at least.
    But my point is, they judge, even when Te or Fe isn't necessarily at play.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #57
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    If those are irrational, how can Feeling be rational then?

    Jungian terms or no, don't definitions sometimes bust out of their own skin, and need new descriptors?


    *sigh* I will have to go pull out my book now. And relearn those definitions and try to get in Jung's head. It isn't difficult for modern-day folk to reason that the earth has a moon, for God's sake (is that taking the Lord's name in vain? ).
    Feeling isn't colloquial rational, but colloquial rational includes a measure of evaluation. Wow, past the confusion all of this is just dissipating before my mind's eye.

    Let the spice flow.

  8. #58
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But my point is, they judge, even when Te or Fe isn't necessarily at play.
    Functions don't judge. People do.

  9. #59
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Functions don't judge. People do.
    lol. but people decide what to judge based on functions, no?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  10. #60
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think Fi and Ti are more subjectively decisive. Means when they spit out analysis or facts they are pretty convinced about them being right and need hard counter facts to be convinced otherwise. Te is more objective and in combination with Ni it has a very detached and objective way to present facts and information. Can be easily convinced of the fact being wrong tho, if not multiple arguements prove them right. In that sense NiTe is more scientific in its approach, while NeTi or NeFi goes deeper, is more subjective and special to the case at hand.

    If you could say that FiNe would resemble Ni, well then you wouldnt need 8 functions.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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