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Thread: Is Ni like Fi?

  1. #31
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But my Ni makes judgments, being my dom function. It decides what stays. It decides ultimately what truth is for me. I call that judgmental.

    And F is just irrational. How can F be 'rational' when you are dealing with feelings?


    I know those are strict Jungian/MBTI terms, but they just really need to be revised, don't they?
    I think in Jungian terms, introverted perception, especially Ni, isn't even that aware of how differently it sees the same things. I think it takes it's own peculiarity for granted. The rationals Fi and Ti otoh are intent on distancing (judging).

    As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But my Ni makes judgments, being my dom function. It decides what stays. It decides ultimately what truth is for me. I call that judgmental.
    Technically, your Ni just generates possibilities. It's why you sometimes sit up half the night replaying things in your head; that's your Ni at work churning out different combinations of elements. Eventually your Fe decides that you have Ni'ed the problem long enough, and your Fe chooses which of the possibilities works best (i.e., "what is truth"). Hence, N is perceiving and F is judging.

    And F is just irrational. How can F be 'rational' when you are dealing with feelings?

    I know those are strict Jungian/MBTI terms, but they just really need to be revised, don't they?
    I sympathize with you on this point. I never really understood the distinction that Jung was trying to make on the irrational/rational spectrum.

  3. #33
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I think in Jungian terms, introvert perception, especially Ni, isn't even that aware of how differently it sees the same things. It takes it's own peculiarity for granted. The rationals Fi and Ti otoh are vent intent on distancing (judging).
    I think Ni is very aware. It has the ability to turn things and look at what it wants, from what angle etc. I don't doubt it uses all other functions as its slave to do this, and I also don't doubt that it is primarily motivated to perceive in its unique way. But I believe it is fully in charge, navigating, positioning, deciding, and ultimately gate-keeping on what my personal psyche locks on to.

    In talking about it with you right now, I think there is another layer (and probably more) to what Jung first identified with functions. Just as in what I'm describing here. I think Ni outwardly seems to be perceiving-dominant, but, in a dominant role, it also judges.

    I'd say it's fairly obvious that Si doms judge. Haven't thought it through yet with the other types.


    If Ni didn't judge, why would Ni doms be so strategical (intj) and good with people (infj)? It ain't all about Fe and Te, esp in an aux role. We attribute too much to that, that I know isn't what is happening inside myself (for example).

    As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his principal problem, and -- in the case of a productive artist-the shaping of perception. But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle.
    I know others say this, but it's not what I experience in myself.

    That 'intensification' thing just sounds like a loop. And, yes, I can get caught in thinking/feeling loops, but I also can come back to reality in order to function well in society, and within my 'groups.'


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  4. #34
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But my Ni makes judgments, being my dom function. It decides what stays. It decides ultimately what truth is for me. I call that judgmental.

    And F is just irrational. How can F be 'rational' when you are dealing with feelings?


    I know those are strict Jungian/MBTI terms, but they just really need to be revised, don't they?
    I don't think they need to be revised. Rational, in this case, means via reason, not logic or exclusively impersonal reason. Personal reason (F), or impersonal reason (T). Deconstructing established terminology is sure to confuse people who actually take interest in cognitive functions, whereas just using the terminology that's already underscored by Jung's reasoning (hah), is likely to confuse many people until they dig deeper down the rabbit hole. Who needs to revise a theory when you can come out the other side and develop your own from scratch?... unless, of course, someone really wants to cling to Jungian thought instead of digesting it.

  5. #35
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I how non-Ni-doms try to tell me how Ni works.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I how non-Ni-doms try to tell me how Ni works.
    C'mon. This is Cognitive Functions 101 material.

  7. #37
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I how non-Ni-doms try to tell me how Ni works.
    Here, I'll illustrate more. Since you love it.

    I'd contrast a intro perceptual person making a music album as someone with a unique approach or theme but doesn't even realize just how different it is. They might even come off innocent about it in interviews or something. It just naturally comes to them. The dom judger could be unique too, but it's often a more conscious or conceptual critique. You might read an interview where an ISTP might say what he intended to do with the latest album, what direction he decided to go in, what issues he wanted to shit on. It's all very conscious. He's looking clearly at the "object" and placing judgement.

  8. #38
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I don't think they need to be revised. Rational, in this case, means via reason, not logic or exclusively impersonal reason. Personal reason (F), or impersonal reason (T). Deconstructing established terminology is sure to confuse people who actually take interest in cognitive functions, whereas just using the terminology that's already underscored by Jung's reasoning (hah), is likely to confuse many people until they dig deeper down the rabbit hole. Who needs to revise a theory when you can come out the other side and develop your own from scratch?... unless, of course, someone really wants to cling to Jungian thought instead of digesting it.
    Good Point. Then I found this:

    Not grounded in reason. (Compare rational.)
    Jung pointed out that elementary existential facts fall into this category-for instance, that the earth has a moon, that chlorine is an element or that water freezes at a certain temperature and reaches its greatest density at four degrees centigrade-as does chance. They are irrational not because they are illogical, but because they are beyond reason.

    In Jung’s model of typology, the psychological functions of intuition and sensation are described as irrational.

    Both intuition and sensation are functions that find fulfilment in the absolute perception of the flux of events. Hence, by their very nature, they will react to every possible occurrence and be attuned to the absolutely contingent, and must therefore lack all rational direction. For this reason I call them irrational functions, as opposed to thinking and feeling, which find fulfilment only when they are in complete harmony with the laws of reason.[Ibid., pars. 776f.]

    Merely because [irrational types] subordinate judgment to perception, it would be quite wrong to regard them as "unreasonable." It wouldbe truer to say that they are in the highest degree empirical. They base themselves entirely on experience. ["General Description of the Types," ibid., par. 616.]

    And I'm like, even further confused. That the earth has a moon seems like quite a rational thought to me. At least in our present time. Perhaps in Jung's day it was irrational (i did not double-check to see that that was a direct quote of his, or the author's creation).

    I just think his whole rational/irrational categories are more confusing than clarifying.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  9. #39
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Here, I'll illustrate more. Since you love it.

    I'd contrast a intro perceptual person making a music album as someone with a unique approach or theme but doesn't even realize just how different it is. They might even come off innocent about it in interviews or something. It just naturally comes to them. The dom judger could be unique too, but it's often a more conscious or conceptual critique. You might read an interview where an ISTP might say what he intended to do with the latest album, what direction he decided to go in, what issues he wanted to shit on. It's all very conscious. He's looking clearly at the "object" and placing judgement.
    Well, but you are talking about a consciousness about the process. That doesn't mean that the dominant perceiver's dominant perception is not judging....it's just doing it at a deeper level that isn't as obvious. Locking onto songs for an album is quite a judgmental process. Hell, anything that gets done involves judgment. And you can't tell me it's all attributed to aux functions in dom perceivers!
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  10. #40
    I'm not Trunks
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    I didn't know much about cognitive function, I just know Ni dom is for INTJ and Fi dom is for INFP, I read about INFP, they seems good reading people minds. I don't have that talents, I'm very visual person, I need to do lots of observation and study their body languages, facial expression and etc..

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