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  1. #1
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    Default Is Ni reverse perception?

    For example:

    I see a thing. It makes an impression on my psyche. Psyche defined as my cognitive self. The network of thoughts that are mine.

    This is perception.

    Ni, would be, then, the reverse of this. Reverse perception.

    I see a thing. My psyche accepts the thing as real, outside of the self. (As opposed to perception, where the thing might very well be just a perception.) It, the psyche, then chooses how it will process this thing. Instead of seeing the thing as making an impression on the psyche...you see the psyche as making an impact on the thing.

    More concretely. A stop sign is red. You perceive the perception of red as true, but you don't accept the red as true. This is straignt perception.

    But, if you were to let to let the external be accepted as true, you then trust that the redness is outside of the psyche. It isn't a perception anymore, but an intuition. And you could easily color that intuition however you like. You could accept that the stop sign is actually yellow instead of red, even though it is red.

    It's hard to explain.

    But since this process is all internal, except for the initial external, and it is intuition, I'd have to call it Ni.

    If so, I suck at it.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    I admit...I had trouble following that post *SHOT* (dang Tert Ti)

    Anyways, I think I can figure out how Ni would relate to 'reverse' perception though. Basically...Ni is seeing something without having concrete proof. It's like being able to visualize the earth's crust underneath the ocean that connect all islands and continents together, despite the fact that our eyes literally see them as separate land masses. (This is why Ni is often compared to being 'psychic', except we aren't always correct and we sometimes 'read too much into things'.)

    Another example that might illustrate this 'reverse' perception would be this test:


    SOURCE

    Now, everyone should be able to 'see' the square there, whether they use Ni well or not. However, Ni-users understand reality (not literally SEEING the concrete world) in a similar way.

    Ni-dom children upon growing up notice connections between seemingly unrelated things. In preschool, for instance, the class happened to be gathered around a computer screensaver featuring fish swimming about. At one point, a seahorse swam off-screen, and then a smaller seahorse swam by from off-screen in the opposite direction. All the kids started going "Oooh, baby seahorse!", but I piped up and said "No, that's the same seahorse further away!" My preschool teachers were consequently astonished, since I was only 3 and I had somehow understood the concept of perspective and applied it to various things I encountered in day-to-day life.

    In high school (and still in college), I would frequently link my subjects together, since I didn't see all the facts I learned as being segregated from one-another depending on whether they were "history" or "science". For instance, my world history teacher was talking about the possibility that the paranoia of peasants in the French revolution was possibly fueled by the mold in their bread. Since I had been learning about molds and parasites in my Biology class, I began wondering what sort of parasite might've been in that bread to affect a person's mental chemistry enough to produce paranoia.

    So basically...Ni is seeing connections between things that concretely (or logically) have no discernible connection. We see separateness as an illusion, and try to link our world together by understanding the unseen influences that govern this world.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, you see, that post made no sense.

    How about this:

    In terms of time.

    Si looks at time from a present to past perspective. It only has that one perspective. Time is everything that was the past that led to this point. The future is more or less unknowable until it has been experienced. It doesn't occur to Si to switch the direction it operates in and extrapolate the results into the future.

    Ni, though, would see time from both the present, the past, and the future. Time is everything that was, is, and will be. You can change that perspective depending on what you want. You can take on a "past perspective" a "present perspective" and a "future perspective". All this leads to a sort of symbiosis of the differences of perspectives, each right in their own way, and each wrong in the ways they aren't right.

    Or maybe this is Ti.

    Ugh..

  4. #4
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    because i don't want to make another thread...

    istp, i think, describes me more.
    Se, the taking in of the external as it is, reflects more the way i think about the external. it goes back to the "stimulus" i was talking about earlier.
    Ne would be taking in the external as a bunch of related, abstract facts.

    Ti, I think, is a give in.

    It's either Si, Ti, Fi or Ni.

    There is no denying I'm introverted. I'm constantly in my own head. Sometimes so much so that I need to not be in my own head, just to balance everything out. Kind of the reverse of traditional introversion, at least as described by the mbti system. I need people at times just so I can stop thinking so much. But, naturally, I can't stand being with them for too long.

    If not Ti, maybe Si, though I'm very rarely thinking about memories. The past, or the present. Fi? Not really, it's not about values, it's about truth. What is, in fact, true, as far as true is possible? And, given the absolute edge of truth, how do you then act upon that truth? This, leads to values, which I'd say is Fe; my values are almost always community or socially centered. I don't care about you hurting my feelings, how could you know you did, after all? But, if you hurt someone else's feelings? That should be acknowledge, even if it isn't strict condemnation of the affronting party. The affronted party should be recognized, regardless. Ni? I can't wrap my head around it, so I just assume that it isn't really something that I use frequently.

    Secondly, I have to use an extroverted function, more specifically, a function that support Ti.
    This has to be either Se, Ne aka a percieving function, because Ti is a judging function.

    And, like I said, I think I use Se more than Ne. The thing, externally, just is, questioning that is an exercise of fruitlessness. The sun, just is. It isn't what it isn't, if that makes sense. Ne, I think, is more willing to see something that is as something that it isn't. It's crazy talk...borderline foolishness. But they make it work, so no judgement.s..

    Which would make Ni my third function...under utilized, but begging to be trusted more. It makes sense, Se is becoming a bit of a snooze fest. I used to be very capable of anything Se related, sports, fixing things, spacial things as well. I've been called an "efficient packer, because I can see how things will occupy the space they need to occupy.." But, my opportunities to use Se have more and more become less frequent, or rather, I'm seeing that Se, while fun, needs to be supported by another function. As I grow up, Se itself becomes less adequate.

    istp? I could live with that.

    I still want to be entj though. In the near future, I'll be convincing myself that I am one.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    It's like being able to visualize the earth's crust underneath the ocean that connect all islands and continents together, despite the fact that our eyes literally see them as separate land masses. (This is why Ni is often compared to being 'psychic', except we aren't always correct and we sometimes 'read too much into things'.)

    ....

    In high school (and still in college), I would frequently link my subjects together, since I didn't see all the facts I learned as being segregated from one-another depending on whether they were "history" or "science". For instance, my world history teacher was talking about the possibility that the paranoia of peasants in the French revolution was possibly fueled by the mold in their bread. Since I had been learning about molds and parasites in my Biology class, I began wondering what sort of parasite might've been in that bread to affect a person's mental chemistry enough to produce paranoia.

    So basically...Ni is seeing connections between things that concretely (or logically) have no discernible connection. We see separateness as an illusion, and try to link our world together by understanding the unseen influences that govern this world.
    This is how my mind works, but only began to work that way as a late teen/grown up, I don't have any marvelous 3 year old baby seahorse stories, as my Ni is tertiary.

  6. #6
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    So basically...Ni is seeing connections between things that concretely (or logically) have no discernible connection. We see separateness as an illusion, and try to link our world together by understanding the unseen influences that govern this world.
    To me this is pretty spot-on about how Ni works. For me, anyway.

    I don't subscribe to the "Ni makes me have magical infallible insight" way of thinking that unfortunately some Ni-doms seem to. But it does seem that my whole life I've been seeing connections that others simply don't, and they make perfect sense to me, and a lot of the time they make far more sense than anything else. Conversely, I frequently miss things that are obvious to most other people... (ie. the "it was right in front of your nose" kind of things)
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  7. #7
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    Oh, and this quote from T S Eliot makes me think of Ni, as well. It's from 'Burnt Norton'. I'm pretty sure T S Eliot was an INTJ.


    Time present and time past
    Are both perhaps present in time future,
    And time future contained in time past.
    If all time is eternally present
    All time is unredeemable.
    What might have been is an abstraction
    Remaining a perpetual possibility
    Only in a world of speculation.
    What might have been and what has been
    Point to one end, which is always present.
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  8. #8
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    Pretty much. Nietzsche is a good example of reverse perception, especially in regard to his ethics. He was a total recluse who wasn't even willing to sacrifice his ego enough for his fellow man. His mind was basically just a feedback loop of skewed perceptions about his relationship to others. The end result was that he probably felt like total shit inside. Maybe withdrawal from opium. We can't blame Ni entirely. The Nietzsche experience is probably exactly like this:

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2FiYq55oac&feature=related"]A Ladies Man[/YOUTUBE]

    "Shit on top of itself". Yeah, totally logical. Sounds more like reverse perception or whatever.

  9. #9
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    BTW, I'm just talking about unhealthy Ni. Healthy Ni is fantastico. It's a paradox shaper, so it's bound to take just about any perception and turn it inside out via the unconscious.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This is how my mind works, but only began to work that way as a late teen/grown up, I don't have any marvelous 3 year old baby seahorse stories, as my Ni is tertiary.
    "Marvelous 3-year-old baby seahorse stories"! XDDDD I love it!

    @SilkRoad =D I'm glad I could agree with a fellow INFJ in that regard!

    Yeah, the 'right in front of your nose' thing tends to happen to me a lot. I remember I got SO mad when I was working with a group in a middle-school physics class, and I was trying to argue a point. They kept interrupting me to try and correct me, but it only made me get angrier. Eventually, it got to the point where I was literally red-in-the-face YELLING at them because they wouldn't let me argue my point (the entire class looked at me like I was nuts, understandably). After I'd finished making my case, I allowed them to correct me; I was wrong. I immediately calmed down and apologized for my reaction. See...I realized in hindsight that the argument mutated into no longer being about the physics subject matter, and more about me trying to get them to let me at LEAST finish speaking, even if I was wrong. I don't like people interrupting me to try and 'save me the trouble', because I want to figure it out on my own. ((Sorry if that seemed like a non-sequitur))

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