MBTI type that gathers information just for one-upmanship?

[Cellmold]

This may sound like an odd question, but can an MBTI type be tied back to deliberately attaining knowledge for the usage in arguments and so that no one can consider that person unintelligent or of less capability?

So they can always be on top? Or can this merely be considered a human trait?

 

[entropie]

I sometimes have that impression from entp Ti-subtypes. Subtype means that they try to make Ti their dominant function, tho its very taxing for them. This often seems like someone who 'prepares' before a conversation, so he can tackle every possible arguement. Some sort of unhealthy Ne/Ti mix.

To go so far and say its a type thing, I wouldnt do. On-Top-manship makes for very uncomfortable persons, who wont be liked a lot in life. I rather thing its more the result of a lack of self-confidence.

 

[Cellmold]

I sometimes have that impression from entp Ti-subtypes. Subtype means that they try to make Ti their dominant function, tho its very taxing for them. This often seems like someone who 'prepares' before a conversation, so he can tackle every possible arguement. Some sort of unhealthy Ne/Ti mix.

To go so far and say its a type thing, I wouldnt do. On-Top-manship makes for very uncomfortable persons, who wont be liked a lot in life. I rather thing its more the result of a lack of self-confidence.

Interesting. "This often seems like someone who 'prepares' before a conversation, so he can tackle every possible arguement." sounds a lot like I was when I was a teenager.

So ENTP maybe? That was the type I was thinking of actually, in regards to this. It does sound like Ne-Ti where Ti is domineering. I seem to have met a lot of people like this, of course this isn't anything but anecdotal. Although it could still be coincidental.

There might be a few reasons as to why someone would engage in this behaviour though.

 

[entropie]

I can speak of a cultural difference here as well. This kind of behaviour is something I encountered the most intense with germans. Bossy self-opininiated behaviour you find here quite often especially in online forums. To me it is a self-confidence problem or a problem of personality development. I never not even slighty have the feeling to correct people for mistakes when having a loose conversation. Nor do I prepare for conversations to seem artifically intelligent. This kinda never works, cause it is evident to every intelligent being in any conversation.

I like you more, like you are today. The key to wisdom is always to listen to others and having the attitude to learn from others. That wont only make you more sympathetic to others but will earn you real knowledge as well.

 

[Cellmold]

I can speak of a cultural difference here as well. This kind of behaviour is something I encountered the most intense with germans. Bossy self-opininiated behaviour you find here quite often especially in online forums. To me it is a self-confidence problem or a problem of personality development. I never not even slighty have the feeling to correct people for mistakes when having a loose conversation. Nor do I prepare for conversations to seem artifically intelligent. This kinda never works, cause it is evident to every intelligent being in any conversation.

I like you more, like you are today. The key to wisdom is always to listen to others and having the attitude to learn from others. That wont only make you more sympathetic to others but will earn you real knowledge as well.

Sounds like wise words to me.

These are actually things ive had to learn as I got older. Im not bossy as such, but I do jump the gun a lot on my reactions to things, so it's been a long process to try and curb that tendency.

 

[skylights]

That's the M.O. of enneagram 5, actually. I suppose I'd relate it to NT types most in the MBTI.

average Fives[...] believe they are not capable of functioning as well as others and so make it their number one priority to acquire the skills and knowledge they feel is necessary for them to be able to operate adequately in life.

 

[entropie]

That's the M.O. of enneagram 5, actually. I suppose I'd relate it to NT types most in the MBTI.

Not necessarily. According to your posted definition this can just mean that 5s try to better themselves. Not to outsmart everyone else.

 

[Istbkleta]

can an MBTI type be tied back to deliberately attaining knowledge for the usage in arguments and so that no one can consider that person unintelligent or of less capability?

So they can always be on top?

No.

 

[Hemd]

The key to wisdom is always to listen to others and having the attitude to learn from others. That wont only make you more sympathetic to others but will earn you real knowledge as well.

Wisely said, i would sign that one.

And i'm german, so now i should argue with you and say something self-opinionated, but nothing comes to my mind.

 

[WALMART]

I understand what you're getting at. Im an entp, and yes, i learn to unmisinform myself in the future.

 

[Cellmold]

I understand what you're getting at. Im an entp, and yes, i learn to unmisinform myself in the future.

Yeah, this is basically how I do things, but I think mine comes from a more feelerish motive of not doing something to put a negative spin on my social reputation as opposed to the more intellectual motive that an NT might have, such as not appearing to be stupid, or just mastering knowledge of a subject for the love of it.

 

[WALMART]

Yeah, this is basically how I do things, but I think mine comes from a more feelerish motive of not doing something to put a negative spin on my social reputation as opposed to the more intellectual motive that an NT might have, such as not appearing to be stupid, or just mastering knowledge of a subject for the love of it.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't like looking stupid D= lol. It's probably that reason I feel like a fool 24/7.

 

[Cellmold]

Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't like looking stupid D= lol. It's probably that reason I feel like a fool 24/7.

Oh yeah I can relate to that....definitely, not a day goes by when I dont look stupid.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

That's the M.O. of enneagram 5, actually. I suppose I'd relate it to NT types most in the MBTI.

I wouldn't say 5s do it for one-up-manship though, or to 'be on top'. They do it just to be able to know they can hold their own and be independent- not to raise themselves 'above' anyone else (I'd guess even that kind of competitive relationship is too 'other dependent' for most e5s, but it's possible that's just me).


As far as feeling the need to 'always be on top', I'd think 3 or 8 might be driven by this the most. But mostly I think it's just a human thing.

 

[Swivelinglight]

MMm


I think it's possible for this scenario to occur. Types (people) using knowledge to gain the upper hand on the other types (people).

I also think it works in reverse. Types (people) using knowledge to gain an understanding of who has the upper hand and in what ways.

To summarize; it's used to know who is better and worst than you and in which way. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now it's up to the individual at hand to decide to make it known that they believe they're above or below the other person.

can an MBTI type be tied back to deliberately attaining knowledge for the usage in arguments and so that no one can consider that person unintelligent or of less capability?

Although I don't think this scenario occurs. Actually this can occur but only in individuals who think that mbti knowledge = intelligence. Anyone who thinks that already lost in my book.

 

[Orangey]

Why would a 5 do this? It seems more like 3 or 8 behavior.

The type would need to have a fundamentally outward/other-regarding perspective to even care enough to do this, and I think 5s, like all of the withdrawn types, would not qualify.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Wisely said, i would sign that one.

And i'm german, so now i should argue with you and say something self-opinionated, but nothing comes to my mind.

Damn you for being the exception to the rule!!! How dare you not contradict entropie's theory thus allowing it to have universal implication!!!!!!110ne

 

[entropie]

Wisely said, i would sign that one.

And i'm german, so now i should argue with you and say something self-opinionated, but nothing comes to my mind.

Your nickname definitly is unbeatable

 

[Cellmold]

MMm


I think it's possible for this scenario to occur. Types (people) using knowledge to gain the upper hand on the other types (people).

I also think it works in reverse. Types (people) using knowledge to gain an understanding of who has the upper hand and in what ways.

To summarize; it's used to know who is better and worst than you and in which way. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now it's up to the individual at hand to decide to make it known that they believe they're above or below the other person.



Although I don't think this scenario occurs. Actually this can occur but only in individuals who think that mbti knowledge = intelligence. Anyone who thinks that already lost in my book.

It sounds like you havn't really understood what I was getting at.

I was merely referencing something that goes on a great deal in real life anyhow and was wondering if there might be any correlation within the system of MBTI.

MBTI and a knowledge of it is hardly the context I was going for. I wasn't talking about knowing more about people's types and then using that information against them either.

Im talking about a natural drive within an individual to gain knowledge and information primarily for the purpose of making sure they dont slip up in the arena of socially or even intellectually perceived intelligence.

Because of course it is not just what you know, it's how you know it, but you do need to know something to build off in the first place.

My perception of this is not that there is some inherent better or worse or that such a person has lost or won, this is actually part of my point. An individual might engage in such thoughts and styles of thinking from time to time and im no different, but it's not a definer, it's subjective and personal rather than being an objective truth of conduct.

Competition and one-upmanship in a debate is often natural, but some people take it too far, they care not about the actual principle's at hand nor about opening up a dialogue of idea exchange, but instead they do it purely so that in their own minds they can satisfy a need for self approval of being better than others in the arena of argumentation. In essence the winning becomes more important than the core reason for the argument or it's purpose as a tool of expanding perception and convincing someone of a point.

In my book THAT is when a person has truely lost. If you become like that, then you are nothing more than a terrier champing at the bit, possibly winning arguments, but usually only on the merits of that individuals own deluded standards and never putting such abilities to any use other than to rile up others for the sake of it.

Ive been like that in the past and I know many many people who are also like that; it solves nothing and helps nothing.

 

[Eugene Watson VIII]

I agree on the 3/8 thing. I would definitely say an immature ENTP. I did know one guy who tried using Ti more than Ne like entropie described and he seemed to nitpick arguments to death before tiring himself out, then when out-smarted used Ne as his last resort. My brother was sort of the same but less rational as the other guy would like to call himself. it's pretty hard to win against them unless their feeling is developed, or you are just good.