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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    I understand what you're getting at. Im an entp, and yes, i learn to unmisinform myself in the future.
    Yeah, this is basically how I do things, but I think mine comes from a more feelerish motive of not doing something to put a negative spin on my social reputation as opposed to the more intellectual motive that an NT might have, such as not appearing to be stupid, or just mastering knowledge of a subject for the love of it.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Yeah, this is basically how I do things, but I think mine comes from a more feelerish motive of not doing something to put a negative spin on my social reputation as opposed to the more intellectual motive that an NT might have, such as not appearing to be stupid, or just mastering knowledge of a subject for the love of it.

    Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't like looking stupid D= lol. It's probably that reason I feel like a fool 24/7.

  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Ah, I see. Yeah, I don't like looking stupid D= lol. It's probably that reason I feel like a fool 24/7.
    Oh yeah I can relate to that....definitely, not a day goes by when I dont look stupid.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #14
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    That's the M.O. of enneagram 5, actually. I suppose I'd relate it to NT types most in the MBTI.
    I wouldn't say 5s do it for one-up-manship though, or to 'be on top'. They do it just to be able to know they can hold their own and be independent- not to raise themselves 'above' anyone else (I'd guess even that kind of competitive relationship is too 'other dependent' for most e5s, but it's possible that's just me).


    As far as feeling the need to 'always be on top', I'd think 3 or 8 might be driven by this the most. But mostly I think it's just a human thing.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  5. #15
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    MMm


    I think it's possible for this scenario to occur. Types (people) using knowledge to gain the upper hand on the other types (people).

    I also think it works in reverse. Types (people) using knowledge to gain an understanding of who has the upper hand and in what ways.

    To summarize; it's used to know who is better and worst than you and in which way. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now it's up to the individual at hand to decide to make it known that they believe they're above or below the other person.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    can an MBTI type be tied back to deliberately attaining knowledge for the usage in arguments and so that no one can consider that person unintelligent or of less capability?
    Although I don't think this scenario occurs. Actually this can occur but only in individuals who think that mbti knowledge = intelligence. Anyone who thinks that already lost in my book.

  6. #16
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Why would a 5 do this? It seems more like 3 or 8 behavior.

    The type would need to have a fundamentally outward/other-regarding perspective to even care enough to do this, and I think 5s, like all of the withdrawn types, would not qualify.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #17
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemd View Post
    Wisely said, i would sign that one.

    And i'm german, so now i should argue with you and say something self-opinionated, but nothing comes to my mind.
    Damn you for being the exception to the rule!!! How dare you not contradict entropie's theory thus allowing it to have universal implication!!!!!!110ne
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemd View Post
    Wisely said, i would sign that one.

    And i'm german, so now i should argue with you and say something self-opinionated, but nothing comes to my mind.
    Your nickname definitly is unbeatable
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swivelinglight View Post
    MMm


    I think it's possible for this scenario to occur. Types (people) using knowledge to gain the upper hand on the other types (people).

    I also think it works in reverse. Types (people) using knowledge to gain an understanding of who has the upper hand and in what ways.

    To summarize; it's used to know who is better and worst than you and in which way. I don't see anything wrong with that. Now it's up to the individual at hand to decide to make it known that they believe they're above or below the other person.



    Although I don't think this scenario occurs. Actually this can occur but only in individuals who think that mbti knowledge = intelligence. Anyone who thinks that already lost in my book.
    It sounds like you havn't really understood what I was getting at.

    I was merely referencing something that goes on a great deal in real life anyhow and was wondering if there might be any correlation within the system of MBTI.

    MBTI and a knowledge of it is hardly the context I was going for. I wasn't talking about knowing more about people's types and then using that information against them either.

    Im talking about a natural drive within an individual to gain knowledge and information primarily for the purpose of making sure they dont slip up in the arena of socially or even intellectually perceived intelligence.

    Because of course it is not just what you know, it's how you know it, but you do need to know something to build off in the first place.

    My perception of this is not that there is some inherent better or worse or that such a person has lost or won, this is actually part of my point. An individual might engage in such thoughts and styles of thinking from time to time and im no different, but it's not a definer, it's subjective and personal rather than being an objective truth of conduct.

    Competition and one-upmanship in a debate is often natural, but some people take it too far, they care not about the actual principle's at hand nor about opening up a dialogue of idea exchange, but instead they do it purely so that in their own minds they can satisfy a need for self approval of being better than others in the arena of argumentation. In essence the winning becomes more important than the core reason for the argument or it's purpose as a tool of expanding perception and convincing someone of a point.

    In my book THAT is when a person has truely lost. If you become like that, then you are nothing more than a terrier champing at the bit, possibly winning arguments, but usually only on the merits of that individuals own deluded standards and never putting such abilities to any use other than to rile up others for the sake of it.

    Ive been like that in the past and I know many many people who are also like that; it solves nothing and helps nothing.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    I agree on the 3/8 thing. I would definitely say an immature ENTP. I did know one guy who tried using Ti more than Ne like entropie described and he seemed to nitpick arguments to death before tiring himself out, then when out-smarted used Ne as his last resort. My brother was sort of the same but less rational as the other guy would like to call himself. it's pretty hard to win against them unless their feeling is developed, or you are just good.
    Myers-Briggs: xsFP

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    ~ People don't think it be like it is, but it do. ~

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