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  1. #11
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Its not the letters that make the type, but the functions that make type. Thats like saying that a woman is a woman because she has boobs. Its her DNA and genetics that make her a girl, not the other way around.
    I N V I C T U S

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Its not the letters that make they type, but the functions that make type. Thats like saying that a woman is a woman because she has boobs. Its her DNA and genetics that make her a girl, not the other way around.
    That describes how Myers and Briggs made the types, with a few changes of their own based on some personalogy they did before encountering Jung's work. The MBTI is a synthesis of Jung's work and their own, dumbed down to be palatable to the masses.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Then let's look at it the way you apparently look at it. Next paragraph:

    "INTPs value knowledge above all else."

    Um, no that would be SEX. Or knowledge as to how to acquire more SEX. Does that count?

    "Their minds are constantly working to generate new theories, or to prove or disprove existing theories."

    Because I'm always reading about SEX, and it gives me ideas.

    "They approach problems and theories with enthusiasm and skepticism, ignoring existing rules and opinions and defining their own approach to the resolution."

    Don't tell ME how to have SEX.

    "They seek patterns and logical explanations for anything that interests them."

    Ehh, she doesn't like me cuz she's a sleaze anyway. Good riddance.

    (And so on.)
    No you didn't understand what im saying at all, the framework of what you believe my argument to be is completely incorrect. How does a person or a collection of people define their judgements on what a person's psychological type is when no one can really agree on what defines what?

    Have you read my posts and threads? Im always looking for more information and knowledge, not just from discussions on here but in my own spare time where I absorb as much as I can about that which interests me or which appears to be relevant.

    They typically are so strongly driven to turn problems into logical explanations, that they live much of their lives within their own heads, and may not place as much importance or value on the external world.
    Could have described me down to a tee as a child, I spent inordinate amounts of time in my own head, trying to work out or analyse why something is or what it is, how it is defined, how it works. Also what are the parts which tie it together.

    Their natural drive to turn theories into concrete understanding may turn into a feeling of personal responsibility to solve theoretical problems, and help society move towards a higher understanding.'
    Oh *insert deity of choice here* yes! Im endlessly trying to do this when I talk to others about my ideas or in a discussion, even if you do not see it on here much.

    You said:
    How could I say "maybe" to this description? I especially like this part, "Their natural drive to turn theories into concrete understanding."
    Well exactly, how could you say no? It doesn't matter how rational you might believe yourself to be, how possessed of critical thinking you might appear to be, everyone has that part of them that loves a bit of self affirmation, something to latch onto, for the ego to feed off. Did you ever consider that this speaks to you because you want it to be right?

    Incidentally:
    "Their natural drive to turn theories into concrete understanding."
    That pretty much describes my entire time here. Im constantly trying to understand this theory, my own theories and the theories of others, looking for some ground work of concreteness into which I can sink my mind.

    But the point is, I seriously doubt you, or many others here, would type me as an INTP. Would you? So who is more correct, where is the definer? Where is the concrete? I wouldn't even consider INTP for myself, but I relate immensely to that description.

    Being certain in your own opinions and judgements does not make them more correct or accurate.

    Incidentally I may just remove MBTI from my profile altogether as it seems to encourage people's biases rather than an understanding of minds.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Was sex just an example...or am I the one giving the impression im talking about sex? But no you didn't understand what im saying at all, the framework of what you believe my argument to be is completely incorrect. How does a person or a collection of people define their judgements on what a person's psychological type is when no one can really agree on what defines what?
    It could be true of what I think about your thinking method, or it could be a vicious evil prank haha. Or it could be something like this:



    I don't know any INTPs who would actually say something like that. They just might think it. But in parody, of course they'll say whatever the illustrator puts in their mouths that makes them look idiosyncratic, yet believable in terms of an INTP thought process.

    Over the past month or more I've come to question the thinking methods that others use in typology. It's like we're discussing two very different things. Often they'll blame the type descriptions for their problem. Maybe those aren't always suited to cognitive style. Maybe pictures would work better. Motivational posters could serve that purpose, but the people represented in them aren't necessarily the type portrayed, so that's a problem for self-typing.


    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Have you read my posts and threads? Im always looking for more information and knowledge, not just from discussions on here but in my own spare time where I absorb as much as I can about that which interests me or which appears to be relevant.

    Could have described me down to a tee as a child, I spent inordinate amounts of time in my own head, trying to work out or analyse why something is or what it is, how it is defined, how it works. Also what are the parts which tie it together.
    But that's not relevant anymore. I don't see my child self as an INTP. It's too early in life to make that call.

    There is a test on typing one's child but it only includes part of the answer. It systematically omits the complete answer until the child's mind has developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Oh *insert deity of choice here* yes! Im endlessly trying to do this when I talk to others about my ideas or in a discussion, even if you do not see it on here much.

    You said:

    Well exactly, how could you say no? It doesn't matter how rational you might believe yourself to be, how possessed of critical thinking you might appear to be, everyone has that part of them that loves a bit of self affirmation, something to latch onto, for the ego to feed off. Did you ever consider that this speaks to you because you want it to be right?

    Incidentally: That pretty much describes my entire time here. Im constantly trying to understand this theory, my own theories and the theories of others, looking for some ground work of concreteness into which I can sink my mind.

    But the point is, I seriously doubt you, or many others here, would type me as an INTP? Would you? So who is more correct, where is the definer? Where is the concrete?
    Your video from a while back reminds me of an INTP or ENFP talking, the latter in terms of fitting in with the intellectual NT style of parts the forum. Although it sounds like you have given the cosmological topic a great amount of thought, I could poke many holes in your arguments without blinking. Should I post a video rebuttal?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #15
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Your video from a while back reminds me of an INTP or ENFP talking, the latter in terms of fitting in with the intellectual NT style of parts the forum. Although it sounds like you have given the cosmological topic a great amount of thought, I could poke many holes in your arguments without blinking. Should I post a video rebuttal?
    Well you can do, I cant remember which video you mean though. But remember I accept that I do not believe myself to be an INTP and if there is a true objective measurement of type then I doubt it would throw out INTP either. It isn't just descriptions though Mal, (despite my attacking of them), it's the entire system as a whole and the way in which people view it that I question. There is very little that proves or disproves it, so it simply is.

    I suppose I could go through your post point by point myself, but I agree with some of it and the amusing reductionist comic earns some brownie points. But the way in which you broke down my argument was actually not what was intended within the argument, so less than reductionism it is more like just your perception of it, but you did admit it was a fun joke.

    Of course also dont forget the part knowledge has to play, if I have spent my life being moved away from subjects which would normally have developed my interest or abilities that are closer to my true nature, then I wont possess any information on which to go, no matter how I construct the argument.

    *EDIT* Oh yeah, it was mentioned to me recently that when it comes to typing oneself that enneagram can play a big part.

    *Double EDIT*

    Im aware that I dont disregard descriptions entirely and that my opinion on some of them may be influenced as a projection of my own frustration about not knowing my MBTI type. I accept that this plays a large part in my evaluations and what ive been saying lately.

    However not everything ive said against descriptions is untrue, a lot of them are misconcepted and derive their information from either a poor understanding of MBTI or from bad information and surface skipping delving.

    If I had listened to descriptions or tests I would have put my MBTI as INTJ and had done. Although this doesnt mean I disregard them entirely, some of them make a lot of sense and are well written, but even then I seem to identify with multiple types at once. I will say, though, that it was a well written description that gave me 6w7 for my enneagram.

    I do understand that this does seem as if im placing personal hangups on a system.....it's both true and untrue. There is plenty of evidence for my argument as well as against.
    Last edited by Cellmold; 07-10-2012 at 04:19 AM.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #16
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    I/E-30/70
    S/N-75/25
    T/F-45/55
    P/J-40/60

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    I/E-30/70
    S/N-75/25
    T/F-45/55
    P/J-40/60
    That's exactly what I said, but others don't seem to agree.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    That's exactly what I said, but others don't seem to agree.
    Well this is awkward...I read the op, read the thread, did an estimate based on experience...and came to the exact same conclusion...hmm...

  9. #19
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    It varies from test to test but on the average:

    I 80-90%
    N 70%
    T 50-60%
    P 50-60%

    The last two are borderline and it's not unusual for me to cross into J or F territory when taking tests.
    INtp
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