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  1. #21
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Tricky questions (but very interesting nonetheless).

    As a tertiary Fi user:

    -How do you deal with people that follow a certain path that is different from the path you, as a Fi user, think is right for that person.
    -How far are you willing to go in order to try and help/steer that person in your direction?
    -Where do you draw the line of respecting other peoples ways, regardless of the fact it is right for them or not.
    -How does it make you feel when you can't persuade or force a person to conform to your ideal.
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  2. #22
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

    Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.
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  3. #23
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

    Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.
    I really get that Fi can look quite inconsistent on the surface. I sort of dislike that about myself at times, but I can't help it. Fi is very fluid to me. I think I compared it to a Newtonian Solid one time in another thread a long time ago, but I think it's quite true. I like keeping my ideas to myself so I can change them if I need to once I get more information. I have a very small but key set of values tucked way deep within me that I will almost never budge on, but everything else is fair game to change.

    I don't know if it's that I dislike being wrong or if it's more that I dislike stating something and having to retract it (makes me look flaky) but it's a big piece of why I like keeping things to myself. It's like in dating... I may start off thinking, oh this guy is awesome, I <3 him. And I am feeling all warm and cuddly deep below the surface and I want to express it, but I realize I may not know enough about him quite yet to truly be decided... So I keep it to myself. Then I find out he chews with his mouth open, never wants to travel outside of the cities, or has no working knowledge of the solar system, and my attraction completely dies. I am relieved because I can now change my mind and disengage without it having to be a Big Talking Deal.

    There is a giant inherent flaw in this system that I am more and more realizing. I am not sure how to change it, however. Perhaps being aware of it will be enough.

  4. #24
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I really get that Fi can look quite inconsistent on the surface. I sort of dislike that about myself at times, but I can't help it. Fi is very fluid to me. I think I compared it to a Newtonian Solid one time in another thread a long time ago, but I think it's quite true. I like keeping my ideas to myself so I can change them if I need to once I get more information. I have a very small but key set of values tucked way deep within me that I will almost never budge on, but everything else is fair game to change.

    I don't know if it's that I dislike being wrong or if it's more that I dislike stating something and having to retract it (makes me look flaky) but it's a big piece of why I like keeping things to myself. It's like in dating... I may start off thinking, oh this guy is awesome, I <3 him. And I am feeling all warm and cuddly deep below the surface and I want to express it, but I realize I may not know enough about him quite yet to truly be decided... So I keep it to myself. Then I find out he chews with his mouth open, never wants to travel outside of the cities, or has no working knowledge of the solar system, and my attraction completely dies. I am relieved because I can now change my mind and disengage without it having to be a Big Talking Deal.

    There is a giant inherent flaw in this system that I am more and more realizing. I am not sure how to change it, however. Perhaps being aware of it will be enough.
    It's interesting that I kind of relate to what you say, in terms of not wanting to put yourself out there too much (in a way) to then get shot down or look like an idiot - if that's more or less what you're saying! But I am definitely Fe. I have a feeling that for an Fi user, this impulse might be more about wanting to protect your inner feelings, which are valuable and potentially fragile; for an Fe user it might be more about not wanting others to perceive you as inconsistent... Something like that.

    I do think that Fe users will do something apparently "inconsistent" because they've "gone along" with a situation they're uncomfortable with for too long, so as not to rock the boat or to be polite, or they're not sure how they feel about it, and then the volcano erupts. With Fi users maybe it's more that they're genuinely kind of go-with-the-flow until you hit a deeply held inner value?
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It's interesting that I kind of relate to what you say, in terms of not wanting to put yourself out there too much (in a way) to then get shot down or look like an idiot - if that's more or less what you're saying! But I am definitely Fe. I have a feeling that for an Fi user, this impulse might be more about wanting to protect your inner feelings, which are valuable and potentially fragile; for an Fe user it might be more about not wanting others to perceive you as inconsistent... Something like that.

    I do think that Fe users will do something apparently "inconsistent" because they've "gone along" with a situation they're uncomfortable with for too long, so as not to rock the boat or to be polite, or they're not sure how they feel about it, and then the volcano erupts. With Fi users maybe it's more that they're genuinely kind of go-with-the-flow until you hit a deeply held inner value?
    For me, it's not necessarily wholly about not getting shot down per se. It's more like I want the ability to change my mind and not be pinned down with the least amount of effort required. In the dating example, if I keep things to myself for awhile I can change my mind whenever I need to, and not have it be a big deal. I dislike immensely the idea of letting someone think I am into them when maybe I find out that isn't true. It bothers me because I a: may hurt their own feelings and b: will feel trapped into honoring my initial emotions.

    However, there is definitely something to wanting to protect my inner self. It's a combination of many things.... If I feel really strongly about someone then it becomes hard not to express myself and just put myself out there, vulnerability be damned. But there have to be the right kind of circumstances for that moment.

    I guess in the end I find I have control over a situation if I can keep people guessing on what I am really thinking/feeling and that makes me feel secure. Once I can be pinned down into a section of emotion then I feel incredibly vulnerable and I have learned that there are many people out there who will take full advantage of such an occurrance. Which is too bad because it reinforces my need to keep myself walled off, when I really should be learning how to unfold.

    Edit: I am generally go with the flow because it requires less energy. There is a very very small, select sub-set of things that will change that desire... and that's what I reserve energy for. Otherwise, I just don't see the point.

  6. #26
    Bunnies & Rainbow Socks Kayness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

    Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.
    I think I do but do you have a specific situation/scenario in mind?
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  7. #27
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastic View Post
    How does Fi manifest itself in inferior Fi users? How do inferior Fi and inferior Fe differ?
    That's a great question. I have observed that inferior Fe can manifest as a somewhat challenged demeanor where social etiquette is concerned. I read a description of the INTP once that seemed very accurate to my observations. It said that an INTP who feels crossed may explode angrily, alienate and even frighten a number of people, and then settle down and have no idea quite what just happened... and feel very embarrassed at the abrupt loss of control.

    I would surmise that inferior Fi could manifest in times of great stress as an explosion of defensive rage... I would love an ExTJ's input on this though.

  8. #28
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Tricky questions (but very interesting nonetheless).
    Hit me!

    As a tertiary Fi user:

    -How do you deal with people that follow a certain path that is different from the path you, as a Fi user, think is right for that person.
    Openly and patiently. I try not to offer advice when it is not solicited, and I try not to give advice with the expectation that it will be followed.

    -How far are you willing to go in order to try and help/steer that person in your direction?
    If I care a lot, as much as they want to be helped or steered, and no more.

    -Where do you draw the line of respecting other peoples ways, regardless of the fact it is right for them or not.
    I draw that line very distinctly. Who am I to decide what is right for another person? My daughter, who is seven, is the only one I can imagine as the exception to this.

    -How does it make you feel when you can't persuade or force a person to conform to your ideal.
    I don't think I persuade or force anyone to conform to any ideal that they're not asking me to help them with.

  9. #29
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

    Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.
    As I described earlier (in the active grenades post), the values an Fi user protects form in ways that are very private. I think from the perspective of an Fe user, behaviors that fit the social standard may seem to support that social standard, when instead they may only support something peripheral to it. Since you're only seeing the silent end resulting action, it's impossible to tell where that motivation comes from. So yes, there's a fierce commitment to consistency: harmony between values and actions, in ways that may seem incongruous from the outside.

    Overall, Fi is pretty sedate... as I said, silent. It's only when something conflicts with those deeply held values that the Fi user feels uncomfortable, and the nature and scale of their response depends on their stability and development.

  10. #30
    The Iron Giant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I really get that Fi can look quite inconsistent on the surface. I sort of dislike that about myself at times, but I can't help it. Fi is very fluid to me. I think I compared it to a Newtonian Solid one time in another thread a long time ago, but I think it's quite true. I like keeping my ideas to myself so I can change them if I need to once I get more information. I have a very small but key set of values tucked way deep within me that I will almost never budge on, but everything else is fair game to change.

    I don't know if it's that I dislike being wrong or if it's more that I dislike stating something and having to retract it (makes me look flaky) but it's a big piece of why I like keeping things to myself. It's like in dating... I may start off thinking, oh this guy is awesome, I <3 him. And I am feeling all warm and cuddly deep below the surface and I want to express it, but I realize I may not know enough about him quite yet to truly be decided... So I keep it to myself. Then I find out he chews with his mouth open, never wants to travel outside of the cities, or has no working knowledge of the solar system, and my attraction completely dies. I am relieved because I can now change my mind and disengage without it having to be a Big Talking Deal.

    There is a giant inherent flaw in this system that I am more and more realizing. I am not sure how to change it, however. Perhaps being aware of it will be enough.
    And yet it's totally consistent with Fi. If you bust out those feelings early and let yourself roll with the happy experience of falling into the guy, you're totally exposed and vulnerable. Your early opinion of him becomes your reality. Then, when he turns out to be something other than what you believed, he becomes "false" in your mind, corrupting your reality, and this violates your values... which hurts your feelings and reminds you that next time, you'd best keep this stuff to yourself until you're sure it's safe. It also very likely turns the man into a monster in your eyes... when it's possible that all he is is a regular homebody who doesn't know astronomy.

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