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  1. #31
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I think all types have a problem with being told what to do in a boss wayl. its just that interpretations of bossy vary.
    My own boss appears to enjoy being bossed around. Imagine this ESTJ guy saying "ok..." to an order in a subservient way with his head down. It's almost comical to observe.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #32
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    My own boss appears to enjoy being bossed around. Imagine this ESTJ guy saying "ok..." to an order in a subservient way with his head down. It's almost comical to observe.
    One ESTJ I know responds very well to what I would consider being bossed around. It's how he treats other people, maybe that has something to do with it? It's like he only respects someone who can boss him around.
    I know an ISTJ (my mother-in-law) who is similar, if she perceives the person as having more competence than her in a given area. Then it's like she wants to be bossed around. Like it's a relief. Conversely, if she sees herself as having more competence (rightly or wrongly), she will boss you around. Ohhh her and my INTP husband


    (Have to note, another ESTJ (female this time), doesn't take any bossing well)
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindancing View Post
    One ESTJ I know responds very well to what I would consider being bossed around. It's how he treats other people, maybe that has something to do with it? It's like he only respects someone who can boss him around.
    That plays into being anti-Fi, which is the topic of my latest thread in this series. Te-doms hate that part of themselves, seeing it as weakness. And they hate weakness.

    Quote Originally Posted by raindancing View Post
    I know an ISTJ (my mother-in-law) who is similar, if she perceives the person as having more competence than her in a given area. Then it's like she wants to be bossed around. Like it's a relief.
    Even the most routinized individuals need an occasional break from the routine. It's like taking a vacation. And of course for these competent, valued, and hard-working people, every vacation becomes a well-deserved vacation.

    Quote Originally Posted by raindancing View Post
    Conversely, if she sees herself as having more competence (rightly or wrongly), she will boss you around. Ohhh her and my INTP husband

    (Have to note, another ESTJ (female this time), doesn't take any bossing well)
    Sometimes an ESTJ has a high amount of INFP or ISFP.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #34
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    I've never had an attitude towards any cop that has pulled me over....and back in the day I used to have quite the lead foot. Anymore, I'm constantly on my INTJ husband for tailgating people and speeding. I'm not entirely sure I'm completely understanding what you are getting at. I don't have a problem with authority.... What I do have a problem with is people with authority being rude and hateful for no reason. Like... If I were to get pulled over and I provide all the necessary documents without giving any attitude and the cop comes back and makes the snide comment "I bet you thought you were getting a ticket, but I'm just giving you a warning" I consider that unnecessary attitude.


  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    I've never had an attitude towards any cop that has pulled me over....and back in the day I used to have quite the lead foot. Anymore, I'm constantly on my INTJ husband for tailgating people and speeding. I'm not entirely sure I'm completely understanding what you are getting at. I don't have a problem with authority.... What I do have a problem with is people with authority being rude and hateful for no reason. Like... If I were to get pulled over and I provide all the necessary documents without giving any attitude and the cop comes back and makes the snide comment "I bet you thought you were getting a ticket, but I'm just giving you a warning" I consider that unnecessary attitude.
    My wife is an ISFP and I can read her anti-Te attitude plain as day. But no, she doesn't get angry at cops when she gets pulled over. She's more of an introjector.

    So tell me, do you yourself have Te-inferior? How does it manifest? Have you ever looked into the idea or given it even a moment's thought?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #36
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Afterwards I wondered why this argument had happened and why I felt so angry about it. It was because he had tried to change my opinion as to what was the right creative choice. Within the bounds of work environment he had set, I felt I was within my rights to defend my opinion - yet his behaviour implied that I was free to an opinion, as long as it matched his. The thing is, if he had just told me Te-style to do it a particular way, I would have got on with it, without ceremony. I might have been disappointed but would have accepted his decision. It was when he tried to convince me that I was wrong in order to get me to change tack, that we ran into problems.
    Yes, I think that's a key there.

    Even the "best path" decisions that Te (and Fe) types think are objective, are in reality not. Every decision is subjective. Therefore my subjective opinion on what to do next is just as valid as anyone else's opinion, despite how objective (or more objective) they think their opinions are!

    Since most Fi doms are pro "live and let live" it's this arbitrary pushing of subjective opinion flaunted as "objective" fact that's more annoying than simply "rebelling against authority". Even worse is the subjective opinion propped up on other "facts" and paraded as "we have to do this because data points X, Y and Z say we should". (Admittedly, that's how to convince a dom Te type, and what makes me waver and feel indecisive about my instincts, but when the gut feeling tells you it's the wrong decision, time to go digging to find out why.)

    The OP to me is too simplistic.

    I am not "bossing" my ESTJ hubs around when he asks me for direction on what chores need to get done on a Saturday morning. Yet I am uncomfortable at those times being directive ... my PERCEPTION is that of being bossy, when to him, it's just a normal way of speaking, and he does not feel I am making him do what he doesn't want to do.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #37
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    My wife is an ISFP and I can read her anti-Te attitude plain as day. But no, she doesn't get angry at cops when she gets pulled over. She's more of an introjector.

    So tell me, do you yourself have Te-inferior? How does it manifest? Have you ever looked into the idea or given it even a moment's thought?
    Apparently not, because I'm not sure what you just asked me... I'm still trying to learn more about Te and Ti, Fe and Fi, Ne and Ni, and Se and Si... So I'm not really sure how to answer any of that.


  8. #38
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    Apparently not, because I'm not sure what you just asked me... I'm still trying to learn more about Te and Ti, Fe and Fi, Ne and Ni, and Se and Si... So I'm not really sure how to answer any of that.
    There's a lot of good testimony mostly from INFPs above in this thread. There's always some exterior motive for reacting to the authoritarian Te-dom type, such as "he's stepping all over my individuality and uniqueness." But I think they are primarily reacting to Te-inferior within their own psyches, and I'm searching for more evidence of the idea that our responses to external "problems" are all in our minds.

    This quote is listed under "The Cognitive Functions, Demystified" in the MBTI tutorial section of this forum:

    'Te -- Extraverted Thinking. "Hey, work faster, you slacker! You're losing us time and money!" Extraverted Thinking is a blunt function that is results-oriented, much like that angry boss. Extraverted Thinking follows rules to the letter, and uses the most efficient procedure known to work that will get the job done.'

    Fi-dom will have none of that. Yes I agree that their external responses to authority will usually be docile. But internally that's not the case.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #39
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    @Mal+ Ah, okay... I must have a fairly developed Te then if I'm understanding correctly. "Extraverted Thinking follows rules to the letter, and uses the most efficient procedure known to work that will get the job done." That fits me perfectly at work and at home. I'm the person who pulls the instruction manual and directions out of the box first and starts reading to know exactly what I'm doing.... Meanwhile my INTJ husband is the person who pulls all the parts out and starts trying to put it together.

    I think, in regards to your original post... When someone uses an authoritative voice with me... I don't get angry, so much as I tend to feel slightly threatened and like I seriously did something wrong (on the inside)...on the outside I just do what I'm told and try and let it go. Hmm... I'm wondering if my enneatype has anything to do with my reactions considering I hate any kind of conflict.

    However, as stated before... I always obey traffic laws and tend to abide by all the rules regardless of how silly I think they are. My husband gets mad at me because lately I've been doing the exact speed limit... I stop at yellow lights instead of flooring it to get through them... I don't know... Maybe if I wasn't in this mindset of "why are we always in such a damn hurry" I might break more traffic laws.


  10. #40
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    @Mal+ Ah, okay... I must have a fairly developed Te then if I'm understanding correctly. "Extraverted Thinking follows rules to the letter, and uses the most efficient procedure known to work that will get the job done." That fits me perfectly at work and at home. I'm the person who pulls the instruction manual and directions out of the box first and starts reading to know exactly what I'm doing.... Meanwhile my INTJ husband is the person who pulls all the parts out and starts trying to put it together.

    I think, in regards to your original post... When someone uses an authoritative voice with me... I don't get angry, so much as I tend to feel slightly threatened and like I seriously did something wrong (on the inside)...on the outside I just do what I'm told and try and let it go. Hmm... I'm wondering if my enneatype has anything to do with my reactions considering I hate any kind of conflict.

    However, as stated before... I always obey traffic laws and tend to abide by all the rules regardless of how silly I think they are. My husband gets mad at me because lately I've been doing the exact speed limit... I stop at yellow lights instead of flooring it to get through them... I don't know... Maybe if I wasn't in this mindset of "why are we always in such a damn hurry" I might break more traffic laws.
    That was an example. I've long ago stopped expecting people of the same type to be clones of each other.

    Yet the traffic laws example still tells you something about motives. Fear of authority can result in either a compliant or an aggressive response. But not an indifferent non-response. Complying with traffic laws is a motive-based behavior. Those motives may be kept out of conscious awareness. But it may have something to do with fear of authority.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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