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  1. #1
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Default Tertiary Temptation or Tertiary Relief?

    School me. What are you thoughts on your 3rd function? Is it "good" to develop, or is it a stressful an event? I'm just curious on what everyone's take is on that.

    While you're at it, what about your 4th function? Do you desire to develop it more? Would it make you a more developed individual if you did develop your 3rd and 4th functions?
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    To find yourself you need to lose yourself.

    losing yourself is painful for the ego, since ego wants to preserve itself, this naturally is stressful for the person. after all, this self that you are losing is not the real self you lose, its just the ego-self you lose, but what you find is self greater than your ego. tert and inferior functions are outside of your ego and are more directed by your shadow. so this is essentially about you having to face your shadow and conquer it, by losing your ego-self. without losing your ego-self, it is impossible to conquer your shadow, since your ego tries to repress the shadow side of you.

    when it comes to function development, its usually about something that creates an conflict between dom and inferior functions. tert can offer you a new perspective to it(which is a relief) and this new perspective also allows some room for inferior. bigger the conflict, more stressful it is, more it forces you to develop.

    yes its good to develop your tert and inferior functions, even tho its not an pleasant experience at the time it happens. inferior development before gaining the new perspective from tert is really hard, if not impossible and most likely just causes a major headache or even neurosis and wont let you develop inferior properly.

    i suggest reading this about self regulation of the psyche:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/s
    Self-regulation of the psyche
    A concept based on the compensatory relationship between consciousness and the unconscious. (See also adaptation, compensation, neurosis, opposites and transcendent function.)


    "The psyche does not merely react, it gives its own specific answer to the influences at work upon it."["ome Crucial Points in Psychoanalysis," CW 4, par. 665.]

    The process of self-regulation is going on all the time within the psyche. It only becomes noticeable when ego-consciousness has particular difficulty in adapting to external or internal reality. That is often the start of a process, proceeeding along the lines outlined in the chart, that may lead to individuation.
    The Self-regulation of the Psyche

    a)Difficulty of adaptation. Little progression of libido.
    b)Regression of energy (depression, lack of disposable energy).
    c)Activation of unconscious contents (fantasies, complexes, archetypal images, inferior function, opposite attitude, shadow, anima/animus, etc.). Compensation.
    d)Symptoms of neurosis (confusion, fear, anxiety, guilt, moods, extreme affect, etc.).
    e)Unconscious or half-conscious conflict between ego and contents activated in the unconscious. Inner tension. Defensive reactions.
    f)Activation of the transcendent function, involving the self and archetypal patterns of wholeness.
    g)Formation of symbols (numinosity, synchronicity).
    h)Transfer of energy between unconscious contents and consciousness. Enlargement of the ego, progression of energy.
    i)Assimilation of unconscious contents. Individuation.


    Consciousness and the unconscious seldom agree as to their contents and their tendencies. The self-regulating activities of the psyche, manifest in dreams, fantasies and synchronistic experiences, attempt to correct any significant imbalance. According to Jung, this is necessary for several reasons:


    (1) Consciousness possesses a threshold intensity which its contents must have attained, so that all elements that are too weak remain in the unconscious.

    (2) Consciousness, because of its directed functions, exercises an inhibition (which Freud calls censorship) on all incompatible material, with the result that it sinks into the unconscious.

    (3) Consciousness constitutes the momentary process of adaptation, whereas the unconscious contains not only all the forgotten material of the individual’s own past, but all the inherited behaviour traces constituting the structure of the mind [i.e., archetypes].

    (4) The unconscious contains all the fantasy combinations which have not yet attained the threshold intensity, but which in the course of time and under suitable conditions will enter the light of consciousness.["The Transcendent Function," CW 8, par. 132.]
    "Once the unconscious content has been given form and the meaning of the formulation is understood, the question arises as to how the ego will relate to this position, and how the ego and the unconscious are to come to terms. This is the second and more important stage of the procedure, the bringing together of opposites for the production of a third: the transcendent function. At this stage it is no longer the unconscious that takes the lead, but the ego." - Jung
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #3
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    I feel like it's all about balance.

    When I'm using my third function with conscious attention and regulation, it can be a HUGE help - it can even be what saves me from my biggest pitfall (in my case, Te-directed action overcoming Ne + e6 tendency to get stuck in my own head). When I don't engage it enough, I do get stuck in my own head; when I engage it too heavily and without conscious attention, it can become the infamous ENFP Te-hammer, and alienate people and destroy good, careful progress.

    I have a tenuous relationship with my 4th function (Si). I have a tendency to get frustrated when I have to listen to what feels like too much detail, wanting to skip ahead, but I have found that if I shut myself up for a minute and listen, then I learn things. It's hard to stop the Ne-jumps, though... my mind wants to race ahead to the "inevitable" conclusions instead of hanging out in detail - but the downside of that is that if I did engage Si more, my Ne would reach more refined and accurate conclusions, instead of the wild, fatalistic leaps it can, at times, take.

    Essentially, when I am engaging Si and Te appropriately, I become more productive, more organized, more aware, and more accurate. So, yes, it would make me a better individual to work on these!

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    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses, @skylights and @INTP

    I tend to agree with both of you. I've always appreciated the help my tertiary Ni offers, and I really always have always aspired to my 4th function, Fe. A few years ago I read a little bit about Lenore Thomson's tertiary temptation theory, and was just briefly reminded of it yesterday. She seems to bastardize the third function... or maybe I'm just misinterpreting that

    It might sound a little judgmental, but I've always got an immature vibe from people that use solely their first two functions, with no real signs of developing anything else... especially when their first function looks like a dominating overlord. Thoughts?
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  5. #5
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC View Post
    It might sound a little judgmental, but I've always got an immature vibe from people that use solely their first two functions, with no real signs of developing anything else... especially when their first function looks like a dominating overlord. Thoughts?
    Do you have any particular examples (individuals or types) in mind?

    Tertiary and inferior are something I understand much better in theory than in practice.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Do you have any particular examples (individuals or types) in mind?

    Tertiary and inferior are something I understand much better in theory than in practice.
    I notice it mostly in Te doms, probably because I'm a very different Ti dom.

    I was good friends for an ENTJ for quite some time. When we were in high school, he was very rigid, and never ventured outside of his Te + Ni. He was close-minded, and hard to talk to -- it was all very black and white for him. Over time, he became a little more flexible, and you would see little flashes of Se. While he was still very dependent on Te, that Se helped balance him out when it was in its positive form. He was a lot easier to have conversations with after that.

    My ENFP sister struggled for a long time with Te. At first, she had no desire to work on it, but it would pop out at sporadic moments anyways -- especially when she had too much caffeine or something . I roomed with her in college for a year when she was going through an especially bad anti Te, only Ne/Fi mode. It was pretty brutal. She failed a few classes because she wouldn't go to them, and the house was in complete disarray no matter how often I went through and tried to pick things up (and trust me, I'm not really one to care too much about being orderly). Over the past few years, she's had a strong motivation on getting herself on track and learning how to get organized. I've seen a lot of growth and change in her. Her apartment looks pretty good now, all things considered, and she seems to do very well at work.

    So as far as I can tell, the moral of the story is pretty much what INTP said... without losing your ego-self, you can't conquer your shadow. And your shadow will come out at some point... left unchecked, it looks like a mess.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  7. #7
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC View Post
    School me. What are you thoughts on your 3rd function? Is it "good" to develop, or is it a stressful an event? I'm just curious on what everyone's take is on that.

    While you're at it, what about your 4th function? Do you desire to develop it more? Would it make you a more developed individual if you did develop your 3rd and 4th functions?
    I'm working on developing both the 3rd and 4th functions. It makes me a more well-rounded individual and less stuck. It can be awkward, particularly with the 4th function and I've had embarrassing moments due to lack of attention and paying attention to the wrong stuff. I think that's one advantage of getting older- you become more balanced and less one-sided in your personality.
    INtp
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  8. #8
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I feel like it's all about balance.

    When I'm using my third function with conscious attention and regulation, it can be a HUGE help - it can even be what saves me from my biggest pitfall (in my case, Te-directed action overcoming Ne + e6 tendency to get stuck in my own head). When I don't engage it enough, I do get stuck in my own head; when I engage it too heavily and without conscious attention, it can become the infamous ENFP Te-hammer, and alienate people and destroy good, careful progress.

    I have a tenuous relationship with my 4th function (Si). I have a tendency to get frustrated when I have to listen to what feels like too much detail, wanting to skip ahead, but I have found that if I shut myself up for a minute and listen, then I learn things. It's hard to stop the Ne-jumps, though... my mind wants to race ahead to the "inevitable" conclusions instead of hanging out in detail - but the downside of that is that if I did engage Si more, my Ne would reach more refined and accurate conclusions, instead of the wild, fatalistic leaps it can, at times, take.

    Essentially, when I am engaging Si and Te appropriately, I become more productive, more organized, more aware, and more accurate. So, yes, it would make me a better individual to work on these!
    This is pretty much it in regards to Te. Even when I'm wielding it clumsily, I feel mighty! Then I notice all the damage around me. When my Fi was a sickly mewling, I'd get caught in Ne Te loops.. those felt oppressive and panic inducing.

  9. #9
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I'm working on developing both the 3rd and 4th functions. It makes me a more well-rounded individual and less stuck. It can be awkward, particularly with the 4th function and I've had embarrassing moments due to lack of attention and paying attention to the wrong stuff. I think that's one advantage of getting older- you become more balanced and less one-sided in your personality.
    I have read this assertion in many places, but my personal experience has been almost the opposite. The older I get, the more I find myself relying comfortably (and successfully) on primarly dom/aux. I understand intellectually the benefit of developing the other functions more, I just don't do it, or see it play out in my own life.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #10
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have read this assertion in many places, but my personal experience has been almost the opposite. The older I get, the more I find myself relying comfortably (and successfully) on primarly dom/aux. I understand intellectually the benefit of developing the other functions more, I just don't do it, or see it play out in my own life.
    I agree with you. It seems the more rigid people tend to be to 40+ in my experience. Not necessarily closed minded but more or less, the comfort of having stability and routine that have worked for them in their success. Sometimes it just takes a lot more time and effort to work on "improving" so the costs seem to outweigh the benefits.

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