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  1. #11
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have read this assertion in many places, but my personal experience has been almost the opposite. The older I get, the more I find myself relying comfortably (and successfully) on primarly dom/aux. I understand intellectually the benefit of developing the other functions more, I just don't do it, or see it play out in my own life.
    I agree with you. It seems the more rigid people tend to be to 40+ in my experience. Not necessarily closed minded but more or less, the comfort of having stability and routine that have worked for them in their success. Sometimes it just takes a lot more time and effort to work on "improving" so the costs seem to outweigh the benefits.

    On my part, I am slowly trying to work my Se. It helps me to be more engaged in the world and be more in the moment. In the relief spot, I am interested in asthetics and I become highly observant about people and my environment. However, it still seems pretty weak on me. In order of strength my functions seem to be Fe>Ni>Ti>Se (although it's definitely my relief function). Just relying FeNi creates a delusional world.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    I agree with you. It seems the more rigid people tend to be to 40+ in my experience. Not necessarily closed minded but more or less, the comfort of having stability and routine that have worked for them in their success. Sometimes it just takes a lot more time and effort to work on "improving" so the costs seem to outweigh the benefits.

    On my part, I am slowly trying to work my Se. It helps me to be more engaged in the world and be more in the moment. In the relief spot, I am interested in asthetics and I become highly observant about people and my environment. However, it still seems pretty weak on me. In order of strength my functions seem to be Fe>Ni>Ti>Se (although it's definitely my relief function). Just relying FeNi creates a delusional world.
    Those rigid old folks you mentioned tend to the the cranky type who are annoyed by something all the time and try to find something to nag about constantly because of their inner dissatisfaction.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #13
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have read this assertion in many places, but my personal experience has been almost the opposite. The older I get, the more I find myself relying comfortably (and successfully) on primarly dom/aux. I understand intellectually the benefit of developing the other functions more, I just don't do it, or see it play out in my own life.
    That's really interesting. I was hoping to get the other perspecitve when I made this thread. You don't feel like Fi just pops out sporadically (and sometimes in a negative way) if you don't try to "practice" using it?
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  4. #14
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC View Post
    That's really interesting. I was hoping to get the other perspecitve when I made this thread. You don't feel like Fi just pops out sporadically (and sometimes in a negative way) if you don't try to "practice" using it?
    I won't claim it doesn't. To be honest, I'm not sure I would know how to recognize that. I do recognize more positive manifestations of what I think is Fi, as when something strikes me as wrong simply on principle. I wonder if I have just become better at suppressing Fi overall rather than learning to integrate it more productively. I really would like to learn how to do this.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #15
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I won't claim it doesn't. To be honest, I'm not sure I would know how to recognize that. I do recognize more positive manifestations of what I think is Fi, as when something strikes me as wrong simply on principle. I wonder if I have just become better at suppressing Fi overall rather than learning to integrate it more productively. I really would like to learn how to do this.
    Kind of what sparked all my curiosity in this was I had my random desires to "work" on my Fe... well, probably due to stress. But anyways, it reminded me of a really neat website I ran into a few years back. I spent a while looking for it, and finally discovered it was no longer up. However... I did find a cached version... hopefully this one doesn't disappear anytime soon.

    http://web.archive.org/web/201012180...tion-Attitudes

    I think one thing to keep in mind is that this isn't going to magically help you "develop" functions. However, I think it will help you start recognizing them -- in yourself and others. I think that's just the first step.

    Just out of curiosity, how old are you? I'm curious about how different age groups feel about the topic.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    I have seen this reference before, but didn't realize it was no longer readily available. The Fi section (my tertiary) includes:

    As you come across the action of any mammal engaged in any activity (including humans), say to yourself, "He/she is feeling ______ because he is needing ______" and fill in the blanks. Guess the mammal's emotion as accurately as you can, by paying close attention to every detail of its behavior and trying to imagine what emotion that you might feel if you were that kind of mammal and acting that way. Guess the need by intuiting the inner calling of the animal that is emerging in the way it's responding to its environment, by recalling a similar need of your own. For example, if you see a Scotty dog sniffing around at a new suitcase, you might guess, "He is feeling apprehensive because he has a need to know he's safe." Or you might guess, "He is feeling curious because he has a need to learn all about the world around him." It depends unpredictably on exactly what you really observe. Key is to watch the mammal extremely closely, so your guess emerges spontaneously from empathizing, and not, say, by consciously reasoning on the basis of something you've read. Your guess must come from the fact that you yourself genuinely feel it. It must come from the heart.
    First, I thought Fi was about internal feelings, not trying to decipher the feelings of others. Second, I have always been horrible at deciphering others' feelings, and usually am wrong. This has indeed caused me to consider such information unreliable, and to do exactly what the quote describes: conscious reasoning based on observation plus acquired knowledge.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #17
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC View Post
    School me. What are you thoughts on your 3rd function? Is it "good" to develop, or is it a stressful an event? I'm just curious on what everyone's take is on that.

    While you're at it, what about your 4th function? Do you desire to develop it more? Would it make you a more developed individual if you did develop your 3rd and 4th functions?

    Quote Originally Posted by StephMC View Post
    I've always appreciated the help my tertiary Ni offers, and I really always have always aspired to my 4th function, Fe. A few years ago I read a little bit about Lenore Thomson's tertiary temptation theory, and was just briefly reminded of it yesterday. She seems to bastardize the third function... or maybe I'm just misinterpreting that

    It might sound a little judgmental, but I've always got an immature vibe from people that use solely their first two functions, with no real signs of developing anything else... especially when their first function looks like a dominating overlord. Thoughts?

    I don’t think she’s bastardizing the use of tertiary, I think instead she explains how we can be drawn to it a little too much and consequently not rely on the aux as much as we should to balance out E/I within ourselves. Introverts will over-introvert and extraverts will over-extravert. According to Thomson, when that happens- relying too much on the tertiary and not enough on the auxiliary- the inferior function starts to have a latent but pressing influence on judgment through unconscious impulses. So the ‘tertiary temptation’ is about relying on the tertiary so much that a person either becomes over-extraverted or over-introverted, but otherwise Thomson says ‘using’ the tertiary in proportion is a good thing. (And ‘tertiary temptation’ is different from the theories about how tertiary ‘develops’ in a person’s mid thirties and the inferior supposedly develops after that? I really can’t remember the details but the supposed ‘natural development’ of the tert & aux is a separate issue.)

    I personally don’t give much weight to most shadow theories- it seems like people have a tendency to cram their experiences into the boxes to fit different theories in such a way that just about anything can be made to look ‘true’ (and/or cram their observations about others' experiences in such a way to explain how someone else is in 'shadow mode' *eye roll*), but I don’t find most theories to actually consistently reveal some truth about the experience of being human. I do find some lasting and consistent truth to this ‘tertiary temptation’ though, in that there does seem to be a pattern of people developing certain blind spots according to their mbti type because of it.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  8. #18
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I don’t think she’s bastardizing the use of tertiary, I think instead she explains how we can be drawn to it a little too much and consequently not rely on the aux as much as we should to balance out E/I within ourselves. Introverts will over-introvert and extraverts will over-extravert. According to Thomson, when that happens- relying too much on the tertiary and not enough on the auxiliary- the inferior function starts to have a latent but pressing influence on judgment through unconscious impulses. So the ‘tertiary temptation’ is about relying on the tertiary so much that a person either becomes over-extraverted or over-introverted, but otherwise Thomson says ‘using’ the tertiary in proportion is a good thing. (And ‘tertiary temptation’ is different from the theories about how tertiary ‘develops’ in a person’s mid thirties and the inferior supposedly develops after that? I really can’t remember the details but the supposed ‘natural development’ of the tert & aux is a separate issue.)

    I personally don’t give much weight to most shadow theories- it seems like people have a tendency to cram their experiences into the boxes to fit different theories in such a way that just about anything can be made to look ‘true’ (and/or cram their observations about others' experiences in such a way to explain how someone else is in 'shadow mode' *eye roll*), but I don’t find most theories to actually consistently reveal some truth about the experience of being human. I do find some lasting and consistent truth to this ‘tertiary temptation’ though, in that there does seem to be a pattern of people developing certain blind spots according to their mbti type because of it.
    That was a great explanation, thank you It makes sense when put in that light. I do get a little caught up in Ni sometimes, and neglect Se. I think a balanced growth of both make a lot of sense.
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  9. #19
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I sometimes use Ti as a comfortable alternative to all the Ni-Fe. It's what I lean on to calm down and move forward. I guess Se plays a similar role, it's just harder to tap into and doesn't take the reigns as frequently.

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