User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 55

Thread: Fe at it's best

  1. #31
    I'm not Trunks
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I'm a Fi user, and I've always recognized that Fe is at the heart of what keeps communities together and keeps people on their best behaviour.
    Agreed.

  2. #32
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    [...]The other thing about "Fe is adapting to the group dynamics" is a thing that can be disproven by the two of us. I found what @FineLine said regarding Fe being an inferior function for istp and thats the reason you handle it wrongly, not fair nor right. The thing is FineLine you said that you yourself have adapted to Fe-styles and now live better with that, but you do not have any Fe at all. ISTPs have Fe and they show it a lot, without the need for adapting. If you maybe think of the best Jackie Chan films, under the premise he would be an istp, then that sort of caring nature he has, is the Fe expression of inferior F. A better example would be Rocky with Sylvester Stallone. He always played that hard italian dude but had a soft spot. Or Bud Spencer...[...]
    Yeah, I basically agree with what you’re saying.

    My point was that KDude is looking at Fe “from the inside” (as an Fe-user) and I’m looking at it “from the outside” (as a non-Fe-user). From KDude’s vantage point, it’s easy to disparage Fe or at least not have much esteem for it. He lives with it constantly and even struggles with it when it shows up in others and works against him. Whereas from my vantage point, Fe is something of a revelation, something to be learned about, a set of new tools to be mastered.

    I’m not doubting the authenticity of an ISTP’s experience of Fe. But for me, KDude’s input doesn’t answer the OP: What is Fe at its best?

    For me in particular, Fe is best when I can actually put it to use in my life. For me, as a non-Fe-user, “Fe at its best” boils down to one simple thing: What specific tools or tricks can I learn from it to improve my life?

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    [...] So bottom line, Fe to me aint about rules or regulations or religion or group dynamics, it is first of all the ability to being able to truly feel like another person would and being able to anticipate what he'ld like from you now. Every other interpretation is lifting the Fe function to a level when it becomes torn-apart for some sorts of dogmae.
    This is your angle on Fe. But again: For me, as a non-Fe-user, it doesn’t do enough. It’s just a definition. For me, it doesn’t answer the OP: What’s Fe at its best? I’m not saying that you’re wrong or that KDude is wrong. I’m just saying that everyone is going to have a different opinion about what represents “Fe at its best.”

    For me, as a non-Fe-user, “Fe at its best” boils down to one simple thing: What specific tools or tricks can I learn from it to improve my life?

  3. #33
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    [...] For me, as a non-Fe-user, “Fe at its best” boils down to one simple thing: What specific tools or tricks can I learn from it to improve my life?
    As part of my own definition of "Fe at its best," I already gave the example of using a watch alarm to know when to end social meetings. It’s not specifically an Fe thing, but it kind of mimics a faculty that some Fe users seem to have.

    Here is another example of “Fe at its best” for me (as a non-Fe-user). This is a cross-post from another old thread where I posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    It’s actually very easy to be the most fascinating and interesting person in the world. There are three simple steps.

    1. Input this rule: The deepest and most important psychological drive in humans is the desire to be mirrored or reflected in the eyes of the people around them. This is why trolls troll; it’s also why millionaires strive to become rich and build empires.

    People want to be mirrored/reflected by other people. If you can do that for them, you will be fascinating and interesting to them.

    2. How do you reflect people? There are 2 steps: Empathize; and then ask for further details. Examples: a) “Glad to hear it! Tell me more!” b) “I’m so sorry to hear that. What happened?” c) “Wow, that’s interesting. So how is that working out?”

    Two important notes: 1) When empathizing, your face should reflect the emotion you’re expressing (smile for happiness, look sad for sadness). Practice in front of a mirror. 2) When asking for details, there are lots of ways to draw out the most sullen conversation partner. Repeat the last word they said back to them as a question. Or listen to their intonation when they talk and ask about the things that they emphasize or repeat. See self-help books on shyness and improving conversational skills if you want more such tips.

    3. Practice makes perfect. Join social groups, book discussion groups, hiking clubs, etc. and practice, practice, practice. It will feel fake at first. But it’s a primary survival skill, so practice it and get good at it.

    Furthermore, over time you’ll meet some people with some genuinely interesting stories, and you’ll genuinely empathize with what they have to say. Keep it up for long enough, and you’ll actually start to find other people interesting. Hard to imagine now, but it will in fact happen.

    [...]

    It’s a funny little truism about human life: To be fascinating and interesting, you have to take an interest in others. The second you ask others to take an interest in you, you become a bore and a loser.
    This was something that I only learned when I started paying attention to Fe modes of interacting with people. From my own natural Fi vantage point, I always thought that social success proceeded from my own ability to be entertaining or fascinating. But learning about Fe made me realize the opposite: That I need to take an interest in others in order to be truly interesting to others.

    Hence: This is another example of “Fe at its best.”

  4. #34
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Yeah, I basically agree with what you’re saying.

    My point was that KDude is looking at Fe “from the inside” (as an Fe-user) and I’m looking at it “from the outside” (as a non-Fe-user). From KDude’s vantage point, it’s easy to disparage Fe or at least not have much esteem for it. He lives with it constantly and even struggles with it when it shows up in others and works against him. Whereas from my vantage point, Fe is something of a revelation, something to be learned about, a set of new tools to be mastered.

    I’m not doubting the authenticity of an ISTP’s experience of Fe. But for me, KDude’s input doesn’t answer the OP: What is Fe at its best?

    For me in particular, Fe is best when I can actually put it to use in my life. For me, as a non-Fe-user, “Fe at its best” boils down to one simple thing: What specific tools or tricks can I learn from it to improve my life?
    Well and you are interpreting it from a Fi PoV which isnt objective as well. :/

    I can help myself but I find your attitude offensive. Now you have said three times that you want to use Fe as a tool to get along better. Thats pretty manipulative and egoistic. And is that what is "Fe at its best?" ? A tool to get of people what you want ?

    Thats what I wanted to say and may it be a Fe-influenced standpoint or not. Fe aint a language to learn to get out of people what you want, Fe is an attitude. And if you are only faking that role, people will notice nevertheless.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #35
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Well and you are interpreting it from a Fi PoV which isnt objective as well. :/ .
    Again, I’m not trying to be objective or to come up with some universal definition of Fe. I’m just trying to explain that “Fe at its best” is going to mean different things to different people. What’s wrong with having different opinions on what one can learn from Fe?

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I can help myself but I find your attitude offensive. Now you have said three times that you want to use Fe as a tool to get along better. Thats pretty manipulative and egoistic. And is that what is "Fe at its best?" ? A tool to get of people what you want ?

    Thats what I wanted to say and may it be a Fe-influenced standpoint or not. Fe aint a language to learn to get out of people what you want, Fe is an attitude. And if you are only faking that role, people will notice nevertheless.
    I explained that at length in my first post in the thread. Fe is a mystery to me. I’m trying to learn about it so that interactions with people aren’t such a mystery.

    What's wrong with learning and applying a new function? Why do you put such a cynical spin on my motives?

  6. #36
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    @entropie:

    If I said that I was learning about Te, and I talked about how learning some time management tricks helped me to organize my life: Would you also object to that as well and call me manipulative and a fake?

  7. #37
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    Again, I’m not trying to be objective or to come up with some universal definition of Fe. I’m just trying to explain that “Fe at its best” is going to mean different things to different people. What’s wrong with having different opinions on what one can learn from Fe?
    You can have a different opinion, by all means, I'ld even encourage that. But when you want different opinions and interpretations you cant judge KDude's opinion as a result of Fe being inferior to him. On the quest for "Fe at its best" he has the better starting point to talk about the theorethical function because he has it; you do not. And what I wanted to tell you as new input is that what would appear as "hurt inferior Fe" sometimes is the most pure Fe, because the usage of Fe of dominant Fe people sometimes is clouded behind some social norms, like Lightyear brought the example regarding England. On the quest for "something at its best" I think its a good approach, when you strip it from all influences and find a pure form. From that form then you can start to add things to the basic form again and interprete the usage of the basic form plus additions. But you cant start judging a thing whose essence and background you do not know.

    I explained that at length in my first post in the thread. Fe is a mystery to me. I’m trying to learn about it so that interactions with people aren’t such a mystery. What's wrong with learning and applying a new function? Why do you put such a cynical spin on my motives?
    Because its not "Fe at its best" to get along in society better. "Fe at its best" is imagining how it is for others and that never means automatically to get better along in society. To get along in society you need to be fake, you need to be manipulative, clever, evil, egoistic and unsensitive. All Fe qualities wont help you shit to get along better anywhere.

    And thats my point: "applieing to social norms" unequals "Fe usage", they may be connected but aint an equation. If you are a good person and honestly care for others, this never qutomatically means that you get along good in society, on the contrary. And that is what I wanted to tell you
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #38
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    [..]Because its not "Fe at its best" to get along in society better. "Fe at its best" is imagining how it is for others and that never means automatically to get better along in society. To get along in society you need to be fake, you need to be manipulative, clever, evil, egoistic and unsensitive. All Fe qualities wont help you shit to get along better anywhere.

    And thats my point: "applieing to social norms" unequals "Fe usage", they may be connected but aint an equation. If you are a good person and honestly care for others, this never qutomatically means that you get along good in society, on the contrary. And that is what I wanted to tell you
    So either you have it or you don't? A poor, self-centered Fi-user shouldn't bother trying to take more interest in the people and the world around him? Because that would make him a fake?

  9. #39
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    @entropie:

    If I said that I was learning about Te, and I talked about how learning some time management tricks helped me to organize my life: Would you also object to that as well and call me manipulative and a fake?
    I dont want to insult you or call you manipulative or fake. I am reacting to your snap-shot of Fe and try to show you something else, so you get new input about this thing. Nothing personal I know you are a clever dude.

    Te and Fe cant really be compared. Under extrem pressure and strain nobody who sucks at Te could fake it. If you suck at math that wont change. But thats different with the F-function. To know peoples ethics, you need intuition, empathy and experience with people. To know if someone is a good planer, you just have to listen to him 5 minutes and you know it.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #40
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    So either you have it or you don't? A poor, self-centered Fi-user shouldn't bother trying to take more interest in the people and the world around him? Because that will make him a fake?
    prima donna infp !

    Its my opinion up there, I cant say that I am right or wrong. But I can tell you from my life experience has my interpretation and usage of Fe brought me the deepest trust with people. And having the trust of people is way more better than just being apple to apply to social norms. Make of it what you want.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

Similar Threads

  1. Nanny Government At It's Best - Banning Sledding
    By Hard in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-01-2015, 10:29 AM
  2. [Other] The NT Rationale... efficiency at its best
    By Misty_Mountain_Rose in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-11-2014, 09:23 PM
  3. Notes about each type V1.0 (and entry for best typist contest while I'm at it)
    By zago in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04-03-2013, 06:10 PM
  4. [Enne] The Heart Triad at its Best
    By Cloud of Thunder in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 03-14-2013, 08:23 AM
  5. Fe at it's worst.
    By Cellmold in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-26-2012, 03:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO