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  1. #21
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    @Riva

    and @Andy

    Thanks for the replies. I am aware that this is not the entire story and like you said Andy I do not see it as the sum of it's parts. But what I meant was not so much a case of conformity but trying to bring others into your perception of things so as to enforce a bias or prejudice against those that the Fe user considers 'outside' the accepted values.

    Afterall what those values are can still vary a great deal and the common idea that Fe is at the mercy of the social environment is somewhat false in my eyes. Remember what I said: Does Fe ENCOURAGE a mob mentality, although as a cognitive function I can see how I miscommunicated my point as the Fe user being the one encouraged to go along with the mob mentality as if Fe is a separate entity.

    What I should have asked was: Do strong Fe users sometimes try to encourage a mob mentality in others?

    @Riva This isn't really Fe hate, I was just wondering about a possible negative connotation of it, remember I come under the catagorisation of those who possess strong Fe.
    Sorry for the late reply. I've not been on for awhile.

    If by strong you mean "bad but prominent" than yes, they will sometimes try to encourage mob mentality. Interestingly, those with under developed Fe will occationally do such a thing as a form of compensation. They feel a need to have people agree with them, so they find disenting opinions threatening.

    It's worth noting that inferior Fe can also have the opposite effect - it can cause people to disagree with others just for the sake of showing they are different. That's more a rejection of the inferior. The person tries to deny any connection to others and winds up becomes a sort of photographic negative of a conformist. Such a person doesn't want to many people to agree with them, otherwise the whole rebel thing doesn't work.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  2. #22
    right on the left wing Philosorapteuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post

    It's worth noting that inferior Fe can also have the opposite effect - it can cause people to disagree with others just for the sake of showing they are different. That's more a rejection of the inferior. The person tries to deny any connection to others and winds up becomes a sort of photographic negative of a conformist. Such a person doesn't want to many people to agree with them, otherwise the whole rebel thing doesn't work.
    Oh wow, so true. I'd never thought of that phenomenon as being a negative form of Fe, but it makes a lot of sense. Something that seems to crop up a fair bit in geeky circles. "I'm Special because I'm so different", "I hate everything mainstream because I have to be different", "Nothing you can suggest will help because I have to be DIFFERENT even if I don't enjoy it at all... Guilty of that last one myself. *food for thought*
    "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

    I'd be a card-carrying sensotard, but I can't find the goddamn card.

  3. #23
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Fe at its worst, can be oppressive with "shoulds", "don'ts", "do's" due to being a slave to appropriateness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosorapteuse View Post
    I'd say that Fe can definitely work to the detriment of the person in question. I find it can lead to minor social slip-ups being blown out of all proportion and making me feel guilty, miserable and generally like a terrible person for doing something that the other party isn't even that bothered about, like forgetting their name or (my particular speciality) accidentally interrupting them because you thought they'd finished speaking when they hadn't.
    This is the biggest problem I have seen. It's criticism about useless and unimportant things which serves no effective purpose whatsoever except to harm the individual being criticized. It's being a slave to convention. I think to some degree it is a form of passive aggressive behavior.

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  4. #24
    right on the left wing Philosorapteuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    This is the biggest problem I have seen. It's criticism about useless and unimportant things which serves no effective purpose whatsoever except to harm the individual being criticized. It's being a slave to convention. I think to some degree it is a form of passive aggressive behavior.
    Yes. Hilariously, it just as often gets applied to oneself. I can spend years and years berating myself for minor social failures.
    "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

    I'd be a card-carrying sensotard, but I can't find the goddamn card.

  5. #25
    Member amazingdatagirl's Avatar
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    @Philosorapteuse Inferior Fe is hard to live with.

    I think that worldview functions (Si/Ni) actually play a greater role in determining whether an individual will attempt to manipulate group dynamics for the purpose of retaliation or retribution. If a directive type (STJ, STP, NFJ, and NTJ according to Berens) feels that you are hindering their personal goals then either Fi or Fe can become a tool of offense. A Fi-user may utilize Te tactics to mobilize a form of "mob mentality" but the end result is functionally equivalent.

    At the moment, I am dealing with a social conflict involving an ESTJ and her group of friends. As much as I have complained about NFJ/SFJ in the past, I would prefer a Fe based dispute in this case. Fe users are capable of forgiveness and will back away if they feel that their social approbation has run it's course. Inferior/tertiary Fi (ITJ/ETJ) is far less willing to overlook past grievances. This is the shadow Fe that @Eric B mentioned.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    ...

    At it's worst, is Fe merely an encourager of mob mentality and bullying of those who are against it's values?

    Does Fe drive someone to rally others to their cause of judgement against another individual?
    At its worst, yes. Your Fe example is though a particularisation of the disagreeable behaviour of ANY Type where the Dominant function is not balanced by an effectively operating Secondary.

    Let's take ESFJ, the arch-'nice' Fe Type. The problems faced by the ESFJ with underdeveloped S are well summarised at http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ESFJ_per.html :

    " ... conflict with those who believe a situation needs to be properly analysed before its realities can be seen and acted upon. ... find[ing] themselves at odds with [anyone who] does not see their own clearly held judgements to be primary, or [who] does not accord them the "feeling toned" responses they expect. This can produce a range of effects, every one of which ends in conflict for the ESFJ, either with others or with their own feelings ... In varying degrees: spiteful ... intractable ... oblivious ... cut off others.

    The 'mob mentality' and 'rallying' mentioned by the OP would seem to stem from the link's identification of being " ... unable to shrug off feelings that others are not "good people" ... unable to acknowledge anything that goes against their certainty about the "correct" or "right" way to do things ... attribute their own problems to arbitrary and unprovable notions about the way people "ought" to behave ... oblivious to all but their own viewpoint."

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post

    Another Fe hate thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

    Fe cares for the well being of the society
    No doubt most if not all Fe types would like to don that halo. It would though be more accurate to say that, amongst those people who do care for the wellbeing of society, Fe types are over-represented compared with the general population.

    Basically, Fe types are users of Fe as a Judging function, no more and no less; although, at their best, they radiate warmth, care and concern, that does not mean that they occupy society's moral high ground. I'm new to M-B messageboards and not familiar with the concept of, or content of, "Fe hate" threads. I think though that I can intuit pretty readily the sort of dismissive and/or hurt response likely to be triggered in Fe Types having the mirror held up and having to face (or not, as the case may very well be) the almost inevitable corollaries of their overt motives for peace, warmth and harmony. Even if they have a well-operating Secondary, the very fact that their 'currency of interaction' is F means that they expect it as well as deliver it and are prone to show hurt for themselves, rather than empathy or understanding of the other, if they don't get it. In common with all types, they will have personal 'weak spots' which will 'flavour' some of their interpersonal interactions, in the case of ESFJ Types echoing the unpleasant, if not downright distressing (for the other person involved!), behaviours enumerated in the link. As I said above, Fe doesn't occupy the moral high ground. They're human, so like all of us they have a shadow that can cause upset and distress to others.
    Last edited by Mike5609; 06-26-2012 at 03:51 PM. Reason: typo

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