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  1. #61
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    There's a sort of internal sense of when something is inconsistent or when there is a logical contradiction, also an internal sense of when something is congruent or incongruent with a system (or previous experiences). I go into my head, detach, and try to look at things objectively.
    Does this "internal sense" sort of feel like intuition? Could you describe it in more detail?

    I suspect there's a strong parallel between Ti and Fi, here: Fi gets an internal sense that something is "wrong" or "right", but not in a logical or objective sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    You know, this somewhat relates to my theory that in order to use one function you must also be using the opposite of it to some degree. So to use Ti you must also use Fe and vice versa. You can't perceive the patterns behind the details (Ni) unless you observe the outside appearance to some degree (Se).

    Just a theory I play around with in my head.
    This is very close to what Jung is saying, but the opposite function is being used "unconsciously" for the most part, thus in your Ni example, it grabs (in an unconsciously selective way) some details from the environment as anchor points. An analogy might be being given three points and told to fit a quadratic equation to it or a circle on it. A corollary is that Ni is looking for certain kinds of "Se points", and can miss key information that way: e.g., it's really a cubic equation and there are 4 points to fit, not the expected quadratic.

    But there is another piece of the function pairing that is more conscious, and which I believe contributes to mistyping of oneself and others. The dom and aux functions work as a pair, and, I believe, the tert and inf functions work as a pair. As an INTJ, I think abstractly (Ni) about objective things (Te), but my feelings (Fi) seem more attached to immediate environment and sensations (Se).

    This ends up messing up typing because, for example, NiTe and TiNe often seem to do the same kinds of things in the same kinds of ways, and the differences come out only when you watch the different types argue about something abstract and technically complex. For example, INTJs can easily become convinced that they can "do Ti" too, especially if they take one of Nardi's cognitive function tests. Similarly, an ENTP might easily believe that he can "do Ni" as well as Ne: he just focuses more on getting the right answer. But really, that's just Ti, not Ni.

    I think we can feel the difference between the e and the i, but we don't so easily notice that we're switching between the Ti and the Ne (or the Ni and the Te) when we switch between the i and the e.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  2. #62
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You've got Ti, you should be able to figure it... oh.
    I'm definitely getting a better grasp on it. I should mention that I'm in an Ne<Fe loop though, so that creates that is probably why I'm not grasping it completely.

  3. #63
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I'm definitely getting a better grasp on it. I should mention that I'm in an Ne<Fe loop though, so that creates that is probably why I'm not grasping it completely.
    Maybe you're ENFP with Ti as a shadow function. :O

    I wouldn't look it past you. Granted this isn't really based on much at all so I can't solidify it with proper arguements. But it's a thought. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I'm definitely getting a better grasp on it. I should mention that I'm in an Ne<Fe loop though, so that creates that is probably why I'm not grasping it completely.
    Do you know anything about the TiNi loop, because both me and @Mal+ identify as INTP and have our types listed as TiNi (yes I copied Mal+, but hey, that is my type too lol), however for Jungian fundamentalists, that loop is only possible for ISTP and INFJ. Do you have any theories on this?

  5. #65
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Maybe you're ENFP with Ti as a shadow function. :O

    I wouldn't look it past you. Granted this isn't really based on much at all so I can't solidify it with proper arguements. But it's a thought. :P
    It certainly is a possibility. I highly doubt that I am an ENFP though. I chat with @Elfboy all the time over the phone, and I can almost never relate to his Fi. In addition, he also made an Fi vs. Fe test, and I came out Fe on every one of the questions. I seem to use Ne and Fe, but where's the Ti?

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Do you know anything about the TiNi loop, because both me and @Mal+ identify as INTP and have our types listed as TiNi (yes I copied Mal+, but hey, that is my type too lol), however for Jungian fundamentalists, that loop is only possible for ISTP and INFJ. Do you have any theories on this?
    Yeah I seem to be in an Ne<Fe loop that is only possible for the ESFJ (which I'm almost 100% that I am not) and the ENTP. I have created countless threads about this as well, and everyone says ENTP for my type. It seems that for some reason my 3rd function has developed faster than my 2nd function. I guess the only thing that I could imagine that has happened is that I have developed Fe through my childhood experiences. For instance, my father is ISFJ, my mother ENFJ, and my grandma ISFJ as well. All I grew up around was Fe. Therefore I developed Fe through being around all of these people.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Do you know anything about the TiNi loop, because both me and @Mal+ identify as INTP and have our types listed as TiNi (yes I copied Mal+, but hey, that is my type too lol), however for Jungian fundamentalists, that loop is only possible for ISTP and INFJ. Do you have any theories on this?
    Ni was my second highest score on my last JCF test. To me it represents a desire to engage in escapist fantasy. When I visit my family my Fi score takes second place.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Ni was my second highest score on my last JCF test. To me it represents a desire to engage in escapist fantasy. When I visit my family my Fi score takes second place.
    Well besides you testing high on Ti, those sound like the functions of an INTJ! Do you think you might be J, and why or why not?

  8. #68
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Well besides you testing high on Ti, those sound like the functions of an INTJ! Do you think you might be J, and why or why not?
    Ti is just a specific form of Ji (which is either Ti or Fi). Ji means that I introvert the judging process; I judge things internally, subjectively. But the MBTI measures external behavior only, and since my intuition is focused outward, externalized, my fourth letter is P. Ni can't be aux when Ti is dominant because TiNi does not form an MBTI type. The dom and aux must have opposing attitudes. This rule is based on an assumption of how personality type works.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #69
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    OMG. INTP videos are soooooo boring. I can never reach the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #70
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    OMG. INTP videos are soooooo boring. I can never reach the end.
    I wonder if this says more about the INTP in the video or your general interest in the topic he discusses.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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