User Tag List

First 122021222324 Last

Results 211 to 220 of 274

  1. #211
    Anamolic Amalgamation Forever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    7,293

  2. #212
    This is a test. Sil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    366

    Default

    From what I understand, Ns excel in areas that require a focus on abstraction. S types excel in areas that require application of abstraction.

    Smart/intelligence doesn't come into play with the MBTI theory since it's about how people process information, not necessarily if they retain it or extrapolate on it.

  3. #213
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    From what I understand, Ns excel in areas that require a focus on abstraction. S types excel in areas that require application of abstraction.

    Smart/intelligence doesn't come into play with the MBTI theory since it's about how people process information, not necessarily if they retain it or extrapolate on it.
    Correction: they don't as a whole excel. They have a preference for. Mbti is nkt a test of relative skills

    On the topic of intelligence: this thread discussed the correlations. On average. Between type and traits relative to intelligence.
    Such a correlation exists
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE
    Likes Sil liked this post

  4. #214
    This is a test. Sil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    366

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Correction: they don't as a whole excel. They have a preference for. Mbti is nkt a test of relative skills
    Ah. True. My word choice was too strong.

    Preference is better. Thanks for the note.

  5. #215
    This is a test. Sil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    366

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    On the topic of intelligence: this thread discussed the correlations. On average. Between type and traits relative to intelligence.
    Such a correlation exists
    I can see this. Most tests aren't testing for real world application, so it makes sense why Ns would excel in intelligence tests.

    I'd guess if there's a test S types would do better at, it would be the Japanese bar exam. Or perhaps fields tests in general.

    On a side note, my keys sound rather clacky. Gotta fix this.

  6. #216
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    I can see this. Most tests aren't testing for real world application, so it makes sense why Ns would excel in intelligence tests.

    I'd guess if there's a test S types would do better at, it would be the Japanese bar exam. Or perhaps fields tests in general.

    On a side note, my keys sound rather clacky. Gotta fix this.
    Well. I don't think you're necessarily seeing it from the right perspective. First off, I agree with you that N traits are more 'intellectual' etc.

    However. IQ does not test for abstract thought - in fact all the IQ tests are pretty concrete (rotate things in 3d, define a term, find the missing piece, complete the series, find the odd one off...).
    Secondly, IQ is correlated with more than how you think, it's highly correlated with higher brain mass, higher brain myelination (directly linked to signal quality/activation pattern complexity/conductivity/energy efficiency in the brain) etc. etc.

    If Ns, on average, are several times more likely to be in the 130+ iq class it would also hint at the fact that they are likely, on average also exhibiting the traits that seem highly correlated with IQ such as:
    larger brains, higher myelination etc. (yes i'm repeating myself).

    Now frankly i don't think that being and N or and S is THAT relevant to iq, except as an emergent property of how personalities of higher intelligence individuals tend to develop. Which is interesting when considered with all the other data we have, but not as a single 'key' datum in a vacuum, which it is not.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #217
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Well. I don't think you're necessarily seeing it from the right perspective. First off, I agree with you that N traits are more 'intellectual' etc.

    However. IQ does not test for abstract thought - in fact all the IQ tests are pretty concrete (rotate things in 3d, define a term, find the missing piece, complete the series, find the odd one off...).
    Secondly, IQ is correlated with more than how you think, it's highly correlated with higher brain mass, higher brain myelination (directly linked to signal quality/activation pattern complexity/conductivity/energy efficiency in the brain) etc. etc.

    If Ns, on average, are several times more likely to be in the 130+ iq class it would also hint at the fact that they are likely, on average also exhibiting the traits that seem highly correlated with IQ such as:
    larger brains, higher myelination etc. (yes i'm repeating myself).

    Now frankly i don't think that being and N or and S is THAT relevant to iq, except as an emergent property of how personalities of higher intelligence individuals tend to develop. Which is interesting when considered with all the other data we have, but not as a single 'key' datum in a vacuum, which it is not.
    But abstraction requires implementation or its nothing but a possible idea similiar to a theory. The best abstract idea doesn't encompass the details to actually implement it.

    N's are intellectual in a different area then Ss. I know lots of book smart S and abstract smart N's that can't put it to action because they havnt learned how to actually integrate "intellectual" into the world. Application of knowledge is intellectual imo as well. The difference between an engineer and technician. They both operate off of known data. In is just real world while other is from books. Difference between a Prentice towards master and high school education to phd. Different learning style, different data, both intellectual and intelligent.
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #218
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx
    Socionics
    ILE Ti
    Posts
    3,074

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Also a valid argument. Though I think 'cash' obsession is based on multiple factors.

    For example: I don't really 'care' about money. But I do care about achievement. I am more capable than the average guy (ie: in my experience I can equate or surpass someone's skill in a professional field applying less effort that they did).

    Combine the two and I tend to have a greater ability to generate cash than average. Though my being an ENTP is certainly a handicap.

    But take your average cliché high achieving estj with a decent iq and education. While (on average) I consider most of them to be soulless uninventive corporate drone they tend to get to the top. (I do respect smart estjs though)

    Same, and to a greater degree, with ENTJs.

    We're only talking about correlations here at the end of the day.
    You can't even really correlate IQ with MBTI because there's no actual method to measure MBTI's theory of cognition. Just about all of it is armchair guessing based on some stereotypical questions that have not been tested for thoroughness or reliability. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy brainstorming MBTI stuff but I pause to take it really seriously.

  9. #219
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    But abstraction requires implementation or its nothing but a possible idea similiar to a theory. The best abstract idea doesn't encompass the details to actually implement it.

    N's are intellectual in a different area then Ss. I know lots of book smart S and abstract smart N's that can't put it to action because they havnt learned how to actually integrate "intellectual" into the world. Application of knowledge is intellectual imo as well. The difference between an engineer and technician. They both operate off of known data. In is just real world while other is from books. Difference between a Prentice towards master and high school education to phd. Different learning style, different data, both intellectual and intelligent.
    Well I never said anything to the contrary in my post.
    What I said is that IQ tests don't really test for abstraction in itself. And that there seems to be some reason that 'Ns' is highly correlated with high iq (I never implied it was a causal and/or exclusive relationship).
    As to you being an ISTP, or any other S. I really couldn't care less if someone is an S, an N or a Z. These are just their preferences, not an appraisal of their skill and general intelligence.

    Statistics are of course useful but they break down at the individual level. So while yes, on average, people who self assess as S are of lower intelligence (ie: here, IQ) than self assessed Ns for whatever reason, you for example are certainly much more intelligent than the average S or N and - I know it's not 'PC' to say so - so Am I.

    Despite statistical correlations MBTI is not a useful tool when talking about IQ. 'high iq' is better defined (in terms of mind/brain) in terms of right/left brain usage, brain size, myelination, size and duration of neural activation patterns (related to the aforementioned) etc. etc. etc.

    Otherwise, overall, I would say we have the same view point regarding the points you've mentioned (implementation is key). Now I don't think N is really that related to implementation, an ENTJ will be much more hands on than an isfp though i think there certainly is a link.

    I agree Ns tend to be a bit less 'concrete' than 'S', as S afterall specialize in the 'concrete' it is only natural they would develop implementation related skills at a higher rate than Ns.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE
    Likes Poki liked this post

  10. #220
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieNinjaPirate View Post
    You can't even really correlate IQ with MBTI because there's no actual method to measure MBTI's theory of cognition. Just about all of it is armchair guessing based on some stereotypical questions that have not been tested for thoroughness or reliability. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy brainstorming MBTI stuff but I pause to take it really seriously.
    Yes you can. Just like you can correlate association with political parties, eye color, height, country of origin, parental iq etc. These are split into two categories: objective-data (height...) and subjective-self-assessed-data (religion etc.)

    The method to 'measure mbti' is therefore self-evident and in line with what the MBTI is (a self assessment test).

    So if I can correlate IQ with religiosity, political affiliation and any such trait. I can certainly correlate it with MBTI as they are part of the same category.

    *pats* Sorry you're going to have to try harder than that.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

Similar Threads

  1. How Animals are Smarter than Some Humans
    By Mal12345 in forum Home, Garden and Nature
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-06-2013, 02:37 PM
  2. [NT] People who are smarter than you
    By animenagai in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 08-25-2012, 11:03 PM
  3. Replies: 91
    Last Post: 01-23-2011, 07:49 PM
  4. How many Ns are in general population ?
    By Chloe in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: 09-14-2009, 01:54 PM
  5. [MBTItm] Why Fs are smarter than Ts
    By Martian Manifesto in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 10-12-2008, 11:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO