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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I havent said that solving a problem or mathboy in my example means being intelligent. I mean people who are good at math are most often not intelligent, that, one can always be sure of.

    I was more talking about beating the odds. I mean a stone thrown in the air, will fall to the ground if no opposing force is instilled. Thats a natural law. But that someone climbing a rock wouldnt solve a math equation because he is concentrated on climbing is no law. Cause its possible to beat that law. Same applies for Jungs types; they are no natural law, cause its always possible to beat them, if one just tries hard enough.

    And here comes a problem. I remember reading sports interviews with racers, soccer players and mountain climbers. They were asked what they are thinking of when they achieve their highest performances. Most of them answer "Nothing, they aint thinking, they act on impulses, instincts and intuition." Some tho said, like Michael Schumacher, he sometimes is thinking, while racing about trivial things; like a grocery list or painting the house.

    This phaenomenon is not too uncommon and it is a way of a prescindend thinking in the moment. That would be perfectly alignable with Jungs functions, cause it would roughly, in a 1st analysis, define the Se function as a form of action that requires no thinking. it would tho at the same hand define thinking as a function that requires no action. Therefore the two wouldnt need to be connected and you can basically have someone, achieving high Se performances, but thinking nothing... and getting bored because of that and to start thinking.

    Thinking would herein describe the sole process, not the mbti function.

    If you ponder about that, I wonder how many "men and woman of action" as in S people, had brilliant N insights while rubbing their balls. (figuratively spoken)
    you're not understanding because you look through your own Se-rejecting Ne lens...people fully engaged in Se are not "bored" I can assure you that I think about many things but when I am dancing on stage or doing power yoga at great intensity I truly think of nothing, I am my body and my soul, or my performance would be mechanical and basically shit

    same for athletes they have to fully engage in sensing and judging to actually give a fully stellar performance

    you shouldn't even drive a car and do physics, let alone climb mt. Everest, your rejection of Se makes you seem almost silly and foolish to me, like you think physical risk is something that can be handled by multi-tasking. Um, no.

    Not that Se types don't multi task, but I think only someone with demonic Se would say something as silly as this, not even regarding the very real consequences of falling to your fucking death

    no offense, but I don't think you grasp that Ne and Se cannot simultaneously occupy the same space in the brain

    of course sensors think, and Se types use their judging functions and Ni, unless they have an unhealthy Se dom over dependence, which I believe creates the sorts of people who seem like unthinking physical machines, just as a Ti dom overdependent on Ti would seem like a brain in a jar with an otherwise sad existence

  2. #122
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Is that so? That salt really does your hands in. It's nothing to laugh about.
    Only the hardiest and strongest of them all shall toil in the mines, for this reason.

    Those too sensitive for the pain the salt would cause, would bake cupcakes for Her Royal Majesty Empress @Saturned.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    i think my conclusion on this would be that jungian type definitions aint sufficient to describe how and in how many various ways humans perceive the world and what they make of that latter
    Somehow, we've lost sight of the well-accepted psychological notion that instinct, intuition, and emotion are all driven by the same damn phenomena and are damn near synonyms, where the rational and calculating brain is driven by another damn phenomena.

    Racecar drivers may consciously think of dinner while they perform because their instinctual/intuitive brain is doing the thing that's actually "important" for them--rationality isn't so important when you're on the race track; if you stop to think, you're probably dead. That doesn't mean that their brains are shut off and that they're idiots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfa View Post
    I will quote every single post that actually points out a really real cognitive bias that truly affects most people and I congratulate the person who posts it.

    Congratulations, Elfa. I love you.

  4. #124
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    you're not understanding because you look through your own Se-rejecting Ne lens...people fully engaged in Se are not "bored" I can assure you that I think about many things but when I am dancing on stage or doing power yoga at great intensity I truly think of nothing, I am my body and my soul, or my performance would be mechanical and basically shit

    same for athletes they have to fully engage in sensing and judging to actually give a fully stellar performance

    you shouldn't even drive a car and do physics, let alone climb mt. Everest, your rejection of Se makes you seem almost silly and foolish to me, like you think physical risk is something that can be handled by multi-tasking. Um, no.

    Not that Se types don't multi task, but I think only someone with demonic Se would say something as silly as this, not even regarding the very real consequences of falling to your fucking death

    no offense, but I don't think you grasp that Ne and Se cannot simultaneously occupy the same space in the brain

    of course sensors think, and Se types use their judging functions and Ni, unless they have an unhealthy Se dom over dependence, which I believe creates the sorts of people who seem like unthinking physical machines, just as a Ti dom overdependent on Ti would seem like a brain in a jar with an otherwise sad existence
    I am not biased towards Se-people, I am not biased towards anyone. Biases are the prerogative of a weak mind.

    With "bored" I meant that, when you are damn good at one thing and almost do it automatically, you have the time to think about another thing. So a form of multitasking. I'ld see in the nature of S a greater likelihood to excel in that, than in the nature of N.

    if you exaggerate that a bit: for me N perception is like religion. While S perception is like realism. Religious people create their own nice little World to live in. The same basically is done by Star Trek fans. S types have due to that, a high inclination to end up in natural science, cause its what we can define as the best realism there is. For most N types a career in natural sciences started with Star Trek. Still its more likely that Ns will stay in natural sciences cause at the higher classes, it becomes very abstract and defines reality in symbolisms. Thats when the Ns get intrested in it, basically very different from religion it tho isnt.

    Thats why a majority of S types could be in engineering and the majority of N types in physics. At least for my University I can confirm that.

    of course thats all very exaggerated. The point is that an attunement to the real world ist always easier to handle than an attunement to the abstract. If you are attuned to the asbtract, first of all you are a foreigner in your society, cause you need to explain your abstractions. They are always different from person to person. And second of all, you filter reality thru your abstractions. What you called Ne-lens. Therefore you will never be able to tap in into whats called common knowledge and will always be a stranger in any group.

    Regarding thinking much, here's an intresting problem again: when I tell people, who know jack about mbti that they could be F types, they refuse that label and say "I am thinking all the time, therefore I must be a thinker". What defines a T type now ? The quality of thinking ? I can imagine that many people who really worry about stuff a lot, would be called F types. is that because they lack quality of thinking or structure in rationality ? Wouldnt be quality in rationality be a human construct or a human definition, which would turn the whole meaning of T into some sort of philosophical concept disconnected from natural psychology.

    I mean in the end, mbti is reduced to no more than biases. You have a bias about F people and you'll call all people who fit that bias F people. Mbti itself is a theory of biases not more. Cause I hardly doubt you can but all of humanity into 16 types, which would even be different dependant on the culture you define them in.




    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Very true.



    I am reaching this conclusion more and more myself lately. Sad, almost. All of this time devoted to studying this framework only to discover the ultimate truth of reality being more vast and more splendid than a theoretical system can keep up with.

    Truth is, the N POV might be useful in speedy transcendence of situations and therefore major overturns, but the S POV may possess more final wisdom in terms of actually being connected to the life that we are experiencing. We tend to think that N helps us reach faster conclusions but are those conclusions always aligned with actuality? No, no...

    The MBTI itself may be a case in point...
    the time is not in vain, basically it was devoted to a process of growth. Scientific breakthroughs always had a long line of failures to rule wrong stuff out before they happened. Most people think you need to be intelligent to be a scientist but fact is you just need a very strong willpower and patience.

    I agree with you. With N its like with a mathematical model of the real world. If you for example make a mathematical model of your car driving, to for instance calculate your engine power, you'll strip the model of minor influences, like traction resistance, air resistance or pitch resistance. So what do you do ? You create an easy model of reality you can calculate with. Thats what N does all the time.

    That way you can easier see interconnections and reach new insights, cause you made your reality graspable for the human mind, stripped off complexity, but those insights then need to be transfered back to reality, to check if they really work. In control engineering people call that the "image layer" in which you basically create a simplified reality in a self-defined symbolism.

    And here is another thing, mbti does not account for. Relativity. Mbti is a static model of reality and dozens of times we criticized a lack of dynamic. When at some point people start to label themselves X, because they are not sure if they are more of a Feeler or of a Thinker. There is no dynamic in the model which can derivate the turbulent function every person is represented by in any given point and say: sunday you were a Feeler, monday you were a Thinker. Mbti does in that terms leave no room for mavericks. It tries to set up an easy model of reality, graspable for the dumbest dumbeff to market the whole thing more successfully and leaves no room for dynamic and mavericks. Sounds a bit like religion again to me.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #125
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Anyone who is remotely into typology/cares about the human race should know that this is a load of shit by now, lol.

    And to anyone who says that, I take the S approach and say "prove that you're smarter than me."
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Anyone who is remotely into typology/cares about the human race should know that this is a load of shit by now, lol.

    And to anyone who says that, I take the S approach and say "prove that you're smarter than me."
    I agree completely that the only way you can prove something is with empircal evidence and observation because otherwise you could be wrong and hence you are right when you say "prove it". That's right!

  7. #127
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
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    by sns.

  8. #128
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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  9. #129
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    http://www.slayerment.com/blog/ns-are-smarter-ss-mbti

    According to the above website, intuitive people are more intelligent than sensing people (like myself.) I also just got told by @The Great One that I am a sensing ass because I took something he said literally. I am tired of intuitives lording their higher positions in the social intellectual heirarchy and their supreme minds over us sensors!
    hasn't anyone told you not to read?
    N types can't even drive cars in a straight line.
    who's smarter?
    we fukin won boys

  10. #130
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Some N types (not necessarily extroverts) play and/or calculate with more data in their head, I think. And they can adjust spatially or visualize with their imagination easier. That could lead to more raw intelligence than myself personally. I don't give a shit though. I think it's cool. My intelligence has it's strengths too. You can hang around and find out. Dismissing me strictly on type though would be more stupid than what I'm capable of.

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