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Thread: ENFP vs ENTP?

  1. #31
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    I understand, thank you for the support. It's unfortunate for me that you bring this up because I feel that my style is very different from IntuitiveTime.com's style, that I bring something quite unique to the table. You seem to think differently. Also, you seem to imply that I should change my style. If my assumptions are correct, then I must say I disagree with you.
    She is just saying that because you used that chart. That chart is almost identical to team technology. I still like your vids though and I like the new sound effects you have given your videos as well as new comedy adage as well.

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    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Eric B

    What on earth is Fi in the crow's nest?

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    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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  4. #34
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    @Eric B

    What on earth is Fi in the crow's nest?
    That's Lenore Thomson's alternate 8 function model, where the functions normally numbered 7 and 8 are the ones to fill in for the dom. and/or aux. Those functions are the same J/P attitude, and also called the brain hemisphere alternatives.

    This just gives us another context “shadow” functions can be used in.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    That's Lenore Thomson's alternate 8 function model, where the functions normally numbered 7 and 8 are the ones to fill in for the dom. and/or aux. Those functions are the same J/P attitude, and also called the brain hemisphere alternatives.

    This just gives us another context “shadow” functions can be used in.
    It's very strange because I use Ne, Ti, and a good amount too. Wouldn't that be pretty bad for a person's psyche though?

  6. #36
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Bad for the psyche? I've heard that explained as why the functions have to be "ordered" the way they are, and why "dom/tert loops" aren't good for too long, etc. but as Beebe himself says, too much cannot be made out of the order, and as Lenore (or at least the "Exegesis wiki" on her) says, it's not really about functions being "used" like gears. (if it were something like physical gears, then "damage" could occur).

    The functions are perspectives, where data is basically divided, between tangible and conceptual input (information gathering), and technical or humane output (decisions). Fi and Se are basically reflections of Ti and Ne, using the same attitudes, and same brain hemisphere, in this case, right, and bearing the P attitude. They actually bear some things in common through the P attitude (hence, why J/P was able to be made a standalone type factor). Normally, Fe and Si will reflect them, but in the opposite attitudes and hemisphere, and the J attitude.

    So there is not that much of a conflict between the functions in themselves. It's in the ego structure of complexes where we prefer one, and repress the others, which then seem to conflict. However, there are different complexes, and when these are constellated, they are felt through the perspectives of the associated functions. Hence, any one of them can come up, regardless of conflicting with the preferred two.
    So Lenore's theory in the book (conceived before Beebe's order was widely known) looked at it from the angle of the brain alternates being the first we run to. This still focused on the behavioral aspect of the functions, and is even evidenced in many people's cognitive process (Keys to Cognition) test results, where Beebe's #8 is often third in strength (remember, it is not about strength), and the tertiary and inferior are weakest. Later, she moved away from that, and focused on the Tertiary Defense more.

    Here is a diagram that shows both models working together:
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Bad for the psyche? I've heard that explained as why the functions have to be "ordered" the way they are, and why "dom/tert loops" aren't good for too long, etc. but as Beebe himself says, too much cannot be made out of the order, and as Lenore (or at least the "Exegesis wiki" on her) says, it's not really about functions being "used" like gears. (if it were something like physical gears, then "damage" could occur).

    The functions are perspectives, where data is basically divided, between tangible and conceptual input (information gathering), and technical or humane output (decisions). Fi and Se are basically reflections of Ti and Ne, using the same attitudes, and same brain hemisphere, in this case, right, and bearing the P attitude. They actually bear some things in common through the P attitude (hence, why J/P was able to be made a standalone type factor). Normally, Fe and Si will reflect them, but in the opposite attitudes and hemisphere, and the J attitude.

    So there is not that much of a conflict between the functions in themselves. It's in the ego structure of complexes where we prefer one, and repress the others, which then seem to conflict. However, there are different complexes, and when these are constellated, they are felt through the perspectives of the associated functions. Hence, any one of them can come up, regardless of conflicting with the preferred two.
    So Lenore's theory in the book (conceived before Beebe's order was widely known) looked at it from the angle of the brain alternates being the first we run to. This still focused on the behavioral aspect of the functions, and is even evidenced in many people's cognitive process (Keys to Cognition) test results, where Beebe's #8 is often third in strength (remember, it is not about strength), and the tertiary and inferior are weakest. Later, she moved away from that, and focused on the Tertiary Defense more.

    Here is a diagram that shows both models working together:
    Wow, that's very complicated to understand, but I think if I study it for a while, I can comprehend it. Also, did you know that I recently believe that I discovered that I am ENTP 2w3 core type. Is that even possible for an ENTP? It seems more ENFJ to me?

  8. #38
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    If you look at the top semicircle, then the functions are in the standard dom/aux/tert/inf order. But if you look at the left half, you see it is a line that has been joined at both ends so that functions #7 and 8 are actually adjacent to the dom. and aux. This illustrates the "brain alternate" ("Ship Model") concept.

    They have charts showing MBTI-Enneagram distribution, and I think there are examples of that. In my view of the Enneagram, I map them to temperaments rather than functions (like ENFP's are often 2, and they aren't Fe-preferring), so both 2 and 3 are part "Sanguine" in temperament (the 7 is the purest one), with 3 basically between Sanguine and Choleric; and the ENTP is the Sanguine-Choleric blend, (ENP-Sanguine; NT-Choleric), so it would make perfect sense, though ENTP's are usually 7w8 (with 8 as the purest Choleric).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  9. #39
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    @Eric B

    I also believe that I could be a 6 w 7 as well. The only thing that I know for sure is that my variants are Social/sexual.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    If you look at the top semicircle, then the functions are in the standard dom/aux/tert/inf order. But if you look at the left half, you see it is a line that has been joined at both ends so that functions #7 and 8 are actually adjacent to the dom. and aux. This illustrates the "brain alternate" ("Ship Model") concept.

    They have charts showing MBTI-Enneagram distribution, and I think there are examples of that. In my view of the Enneagram, I map them to temperaments rather than functions (like ENFP's are often 2, and they aren't Fe-preferring), so both 2 and 3 are part "Sanguine" in temperament (the 7 is the purest one), with 3 basically between Sanguine and Choleric; and the ENTP is the Sanguine-Choleric blend, (ENP-Sanguine; NT-Choleric), so it would make perfect sense, though ENTP's are usually 7w8 (with 8 as the purest Choleric).
    - ENTP 7w6 is more common than ENTP 7w8 (ENTP 7w8 is still fairly common, but most 7w8s are SPs)
    - most of the ENFP 2s are mistyped 7w6 and 6w7
    - sorry but, 4 humors is nonsense
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