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  1. #1
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Default Functions in Action

    I'm curious as to how you guys understand the functions in the context of an average, everyday activity, including how splits between extraversion and introversion are handled, and so on.

    For example, let's take the activity of doing math problems for homework - something fairly simple.



    First of all - What, exactly, are the cognitive functions? Do we engage all of them, all the time, or do we engage one at a time, or do we engage groups? Are there certain functions that cannot be engaged together? Are there brain processes that take place in addition to the functions, or do the functions sufficiently describe our mental processing?

    To begin, you pull out your homework sheet, place it on the table, and scan the problems. We can assume you're either using Ne or Se to take in that information - but how do we know which one, or both? If you linger longer on patterns and overall trends, you're using Ne (I assume, since that is what I do) - but how does your experience differ if you are using Se? You more clearly note the amount of problems, the complexity of the problems, the kind of questions being asked?

    And then, internally, you must begin making some assessment of this homework. "It looks hard" - Is that T speaking? If we're comparing the external homework information to our internal knowledge of our skills, is that tandem usage of Te and Ni/Si, or Ne/Se and Ti? Or if we make a judgment like "this seems like it will not be useful to my education", is that Fi speaking? Ti? How do we bridge the gap between internal and external? Is it a simple transfer of a group of information? We divide between internal and external, but technically, all information is internal - generated by our minds. Is the extraversion/introversion split real at all, short of in theory?



    I ask all of this because when I raised a real-life example in a previous thread, it became clear to me that I have a good concept of each of the functions themselves, but little real understanding of how they are supposed to work together - how they (supposedly) act in reality.

    I know I just threw a lot of questions and concepts out there - feel free to address any of those, or just add any additional thoughts on the topic.

  2. #2
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    I'm not sure it helps, or is even possible, to break down an activity into such detail. I would expand my field of view to consider questions like: why are you doing the homework? To get a good grade, to not disappoint your teacher/parents, because you want to learn it, because you enjoy it? How will you approach the homework? Consult your notes or textbook, just dive in and start jotting down ideas, work with a study group, follow a process you remember working before? When are you doing the homework? At the last minute, as soon as assigned, at the same time every week, after putting it off to have fun all day? I suppose I am saying everyone uses every function in some fashion, we just tend to rely more on, and probably become better at, those we prefer. It is pretty hard, for instance, not to take in information through our senses, but what attention and priority do we give to that process?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Well, I will give you an example of how I usually write college essays. Let's take an argumentative essay for example. First, my mind literally comes up with thousands of potential ideas to argue and it is very hard for me to organize them. Next, I just do a bunch of research on a topic and this kind of creates more ideas for me, and kind helps me to weed out the bad ones. Then, I think of all the different ways that I could word or organize an essay for the greatest impact on the mind of the reader. I slowly organize the essay piece by piece: I may form paragraph two first, then one, and then I may even move onto 3. I just add something here, then there, then edit this, then edit that. Finally, after re-editing like a thousand times, the pieces finally come together and a gorgeous essay is born. My teachers always try to get me to organize the essay, but I am a pieces sort of guy and build the essay piece by piece. I suck with organization and planning.

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    Senior Member IceBlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    For example, let's take the activity of doing math problems for homework - something fairly simple.



    First of all - What, exactly, are the cognitive functions? Do we engage all of them, all the time, or do we engage one at a time, or do we engage groups? Are there certain functions that cannot be engaged together? Are there brain processes that take place in addition to the functions, or do the functions sufficiently describe our mental processing?
    1) What, exactly, are the cognitive functions?
    Cognitive functions are the result of Jung's studies about personality patterns. There are eight functions set by him.

    2) Do we engage all of them, all the time, or do we engage one at a time, or do we engage groups?
    In situations that do not require much mental activity, such as walking, waiting for the bus, getting dressed... we keep using our main data-gathering function in a static mode, just as way of input, a way of interpreting the world. But specific situations require specific functions, and sometimes even functions working together. So, I guess we use one at a time and sometimes in groups.

    3) Are there certain functions that cannot be engaged together?
    NiSi, NeSe and TeFe sounds awkward. I've never heard or seen anything like it.

    4) Are there brain processes that take place in addition to the functions, or do the functions sufficiently describe our mental processing?
    The term "function" is just a recognizable concept for brain processes that have to do with personality. We recognize Extraverted Feeling, but what causes it are several neurons working together; and this applies to every function.


    [
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    To begin, you pull out your homework sheet, place it on the table, and scan the problems. We can assume you're either using Ne or Se to take in that information - but how do we know which one, or both? If you linger longer on patterns and overall trends, you're using Ne (I assume, since that is what I do) - but how does your experience differ if you are using Se? You more clearly note the amount of problems, the complexity of the problems, the kind of questions being asked?
    1) We can assume you're either using Ne or Se to take in that information - but how do we know which one, or both?
    You are using Se in this kind os situation when you are analyzing the problems, gathering details that might be important. You analyze what's in front of you, what's really there. On the other hand, you are using Ne in this situations when you are reading the problems, and:
    1)You start comparing those with similar stuff
    2)You recognize potential patterns
    3)You can't focus because your head don't stop thinking about the bird singing outside.


    [
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    And then, internally, you must begin making some assessment of this homework. "It looks hard" - Is that T speaking? If we're comparing the external homework information to our internal knowledge of our skills, is that tandem usage of Te and Ni/Si, or Ne/Se and Ti? Or if we make a judgment like "this seems like it will not be useful to my education", is that Fi speaking? Ti? How do we bridge the gap between internal and external? Is it a simple transfer of a group of information? We divide between internal and external, but technically, all information is internal - generated by our minds. Is the extraversion/introversion split real at all, short of in theory?
    1) "It looks hard" - Is that T speaking?
    I guess not. Either T or F can judge a math problem as hard. But I can see Ti users trying harder to solve it than others.

    2) If we're comparing the external homework information to our internal knowledge of our skills, is that tandem usage of Te and Ni/Si, or Ne/Se and Ti?
    This seems like natural. You compare what you are seeing with what you know everytime unconsciously. But I gotta say this attitude seems more likely for SeTi.

    3) Or if we make a judgment like "this seems like it will not be useful to my education", is that Fi speaking? Ti?
    That statement is both Fi and Ti'ish, but in different ways of interpretation. Fi and Ti have internal systems, where the first categorize what's important and what's not subjectively, and the latter objectively. Well... I really don't know how to answer this. But it's surely Fi or Ti being used there.

    4) How do we bridge the gap between internal and external? Is it a simple transfer of a group of information? We divide between internal and external, but technically, all information is internal - generated by our minds. Is the extraversion/introversion split real at all, short of in theory?
    I can't see the extraversion/introversion frontier as something certain, stable. I guess it always changes. Plus, there are areas in life some find it easier to act like an extrovert, and others don't. I find it very easy for socialize, talk with people I don't know, but I simply can't talk about what I like, what I feel.
    All information IS internal, but if you are likely to put those outside, sharing with others, this maybe make you an extrovert.

    ...

    Wow, that was cool. I'm probably wrong with several of my answers, but I hoped it helped.

  5. #5
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    You are over thinking it.

    Imagine the earth with its continents from space.

    You can't "look" at all continents at the same time. You focus on one (or two next to each other) and the others are in your peripheral (semiconscious).

    "The functions" (continents) are probably experienced as needs. I would imagine Fi would be a need for authenticity? (I am seriously asking, I don't know)

    You get the idea.

  6. #6
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    You are over thinking it.

    Imagine the earth with its continents from space.

    You can't "look" at all continents at the same time. You focus on one (or two next to each other) and the others are in your peripheral (semiconscious).

    "The functions" (continents) are probably experienced as needs. I would imagine Fi would be a need for authenticity? (I am seriously asking, I don't know)

    You get the idea.

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