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Ni-dom and the Suspension of Disbelief (Question)

Coriolis

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Why is it that the Ni-dom type so readily relinquishes all critical thinking in favor of falling in love with an outrageously bad fantasy sci-fi movie such as Avatar?
Probably the same reason some of us like pistachio ice cream or siamese cats.

I don't even consider this an ability that needs to be willed into action, the dominant function kicks into action all the time. I'm talking about how easy it is for the Ni-dom to get sucked into an alternate reality, just as a matter of course, if the object of attention is attractive enough. The "Avatar" movie and the "Avatar withdrawal" phenomenon provide an excellent example of this.
I can get drawn into an alternate reality quite easily, but I have to identify with someone/something in it; otherwise, I'm just observing from a distance. For the record, I did not care for Avatar, but enjoy things you might consider equally lacking in objective merit.
 

Mal12345

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Probably the same reason some of us like pistachio ice cream or siamese cats.


I can get drawn into an alternate reality quite easily, but I have to identify with someone/something in it; otherwise, I'm just observing from a distance. For the record, I did not care for Avatar, but enjoy things you might consider equally lacking in objective merit.

I've received three answers as to why Avatar was so attractive.

The cute 12-foot elves.
The ripped-off Dances With Wolves theme.
The beautiful Pandoraverse.

These must be some heavily over-riding factors to suspend disbelief. I'm not talking about the normal skepticism of the anti-sci fi crowd, but simply the fact that it was an objectively bad movie.
 

Reverie

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First, the Ni-doms in my life are some of the most discriminating individuals in my acquaintance. Having said that, I've known one from time to time to get fired up about something that was objectively bullshit after theyve taken a kinda sideways look at it and unifies the field for them elsewhere. Meaning theyve found some shard of information or device in the fluff with meaningful application to...whatever theyre working on at the time. Or they become fascinated by some meta-narrative theyve constructed around the text. Of course, the greater the disparity between the shittiness of the text and the richness of their commentary on it, the more enamored they become of the source material (and thereby their own theory). :p

There are other variations, but these two seem to be favorites. Id suggest you ask your friend what he thought the movie was really about, and see if that clarifies things, Mal. You might also consider the magic of inferior Se, which can occasionally make mindless, sparkily things a guilty pleasure.
:thumbup: That's right.

But at times the rational side relinquishes its focus, and then the Ni-dom mentally appears to go off into another realm.
They're going off to fetch cosmic cookies from realms unimaginable.
 

Mal12345

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:thumbup: That's right.


They're going off to fetch cosmic cookies from realms unimaginable.

Maybe. Or just something future-sounding, as this tidbit from a couple weeks ago IRL:

(Someone mentions landfills)

INTJ: "Many centuries from now another civilization will dig up these landfills in order to learn all kinds of things about us."

INTP (me): "That's because the garbage in landfills doesn't deteriorate quickly enough. We should just leave it above ground."

INTJ: "Really?"

INTP: "Yes. There's not enough oxygen and bacteria underground, and the anaerobic bacteria are slow eaters."

INTJ: "I did not know that."
 
G

garbage

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Even good sci-fi (if there is such a thing) requires suspension of disbelief.

In fact, lots of media requires some suspension of disbelief. We all know that Mario could not possibly jump a dozen feet into the air, conjure up fireballs, or fly by shaking around a raccoon tail.

Sometimes, reality is boring--or, at least, media would be boring if it were held strictly to the constraints of reality.


On the other hand, some shit that requires suspension of disbelief still sucks.
 

Mal12345

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Even good sci-fi (if there is such a thing) requires suspension of disbelief.

In fact, lots of media requires some suspension of disbelief. We all know that Mario could not possibly jump a dozen feet into the air, conjure up fireballs, or fly by shaking around a raccoon tail.

Mario 3 kind of sucked anyway. Like Avatar.

Sometimes, reality is boring--or, at least, media would be boring if it were held strictly to the constraints of reality.


On the other hand, some shit that requires suspension of disbelief still sucks.

Yes, that's a common phenomenon. But what does it mean when the shit that sucks, such as the Pandoraverse, mentally traps people in the alternate Hollywood realm?
 
G

garbage

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Mario 3 kind of sucked anyway. Like Avatar.
ow, my childhood

Yes, that's a common phenomenon. But what does it mean when the shit that sucks, such as the Pandoraverse, mentally traps people in the alternate Hollywood realm?
I figure that, if someone's going to mentally trap themselves in some realm, it may as well be a good one. I can't say that I see the appeal of the Avatar universe.

See also: infatuation with the My Little Pony universe. :shrug:

But what's a good universe to be trapped in? Surely, requiring suspension of belief doesn't take a particular universe out of the running.
 

Elfboy

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Me too.
I'm more curious as to high incidence of younger INTJs and anime fandom.

- tertiary Fi
- anime culture is full of adventurous NFP women
- anime glorifies INTJs
 

Pajderman

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I like to escape reality.
The brain can produce things that in theory is better or at least at an higher level.
The thought of the monster in a horror movie is always more scary then when it is shown in the film.
The world in avatar has a lot of fantastic things that cannot be experienced in other ways than inside ones head.
I really enjoyed avatar because the world was described so well and with a sense of being almost possible. Just enough to be able to imagine the rest, well except for the flying rocks wich I found ridiculous.
The pocahontas-like plot did not do it for me but the world made it a fantastic movie experience.
 

Elfboy

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Who are some of these glorified INTJs from anime?
I can only think of Gandalf, except he is not even anime lol.

off the top of my head
- Light Yagami (Death Note) INTJ 3w4 Sp/Sx
- Lelouch Lamperouge (Code Geass) INTJ 8w7 Sx/Sp
- Sephiroth (Final Fantasy) INTJ 3w4 or 8w9 Sp/Sx
- Sesshomaru (Inuyasha) INTJ 8w9 Sp/Sx
- Kamui (X/1999) INTJ 6w5 Sx/Sp
- Kyoya (Ouran Host Club) INTJ 3w4 Sp/So
 

EJCC

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Yes, that's a common phenomenon. But what does it mean when the shit that sucks, such as the Pandoraverse, mentally traps people in the alternate Hollywood realm?
Okay, I think your thread was named incorrectly, because what you're asking really isn't "Why do Ni-doms suspend their disbelief?", but "Why do Ni-doms watch movies that I don't like?"

I'm pretty sure there are some Ti-doms out there that also watch movies that you don't like. And I'm pretty sure that the bolded is subjective to the point of being impossible to discuss.
 

Mal12345

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Okay, I think your thread was named incorrectly, because what you're asking really isn't "Why do Ni-doms suspend their disbelief?", but "Why do Ni-doms watch movies that I don't like?"

I'm pretty sure there are some Ti-doms out there that also watch movies that you don't like. And I'm pretty sure that the bolded is subjective to the point of being impossible to discuss.

Only if you completely mischaracterize it by putting in words such as ALL INTJs (Ni-doms) and NO INTPS. In other words, ideas that I didn't express.
 

EJCC

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Only if you completely mischaracterize it by putting in words such as ALL INTJs (Ni-doms) and NO INTPS. In other words, ideas that I didn't express.
Okay.

Then here's my answer: All types have the potential to suspend disbelief. My example of Ti-doms was chosen because you're a Ti-dom, but since it turns out you aren't excluding all the types, then I'll say that people suspend disbelief for universal human reasons.

People of all types like shitty movies. In my opinion, Ni-dom reasons for suspending disbelief are the same as the general human reasons for doing so, e.g. escapism. And I'm guessing you don't agree with me, or else you wouldn't have made the thread.
 

Mal12345

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Okay.

Then here's my answer: All types have the potential to suspend disbelief. My example of Ti-doms was chosen because you're a Ti-dom, but since it turns out you aren't excluding all the types, then I'll say that people suspend disbelief for universal human reasons.

People of all types like shitty movies. In my opinion, Ni-dom reasons for suspending disbelief are the same as the general human reasons for doing so, e.g. escapism. And I'm guessing you don't agree with me, or else you wouldn't have made the thread.

The nature of Ni dominant is to have a great appreciation for the possible. Whereas its opposite, Se, has a great appreciation for the actual. Fiction stories are rife with possibilities. If they weren't at least possible realities, they wouldn't make for very believable fiction stories. I agree we all allow ourselves to be sucked into a story in order to get some entertainment value out of it. But not to the point of losing touch with reality.
 

EJCC

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The nature of Ni dominant is to have a great appreciation for the possible. Whereas its opposite, Se, has a great appreciation for the actual. Fiction stories are rife with possibilities. If they weren't at least possible realities, they wouldn't make for very believable fiction stories. I agree we all allow ourselves to be sucked into a story in order to get some entertainment value out of it. But not to the point of losing touch with reality.
I think you may have just answered your own question, Mal. Most of this post could be used as an easy and clear answer to your question.

But the last two sentences (bolded) are a complete non sequitur. Losing touch with reality? Do you mean, the reality of how stupid the movies they like are? Because, again, that's so subjective that it takes the entire conversation to a halt, unless you don't mean "stupid" but instead mean something that can be objectively agreed upon from the plot of "Avatar".
 

Mal12345

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I think you may have just answered your own question, Mal. Most of this post could be used as an easy and clear answer to your question.

But the last two sentences (bolded) are a complete non sequitur. Losing touch with reality? Do you mean, the reality of how stupid the movies they like are? Because, again, that's so subjective that it takes the entire conversation to a halt, unless you don't mean "stupid" but instead mean something that can be objectively agreed upon from the plot of "Avatar".

I didn't rate the movie in that particular comment, so it can't be a non sequitur. But implying that a movie can't be objectively good or bad is a separate argument. My original question relies on the assumption that Avatar is objectively bad, not subjectively bad. Even if you can't grant me that assumption, that doesn't mean my question falls apart. You can see above that my question can survive without any reference to a bad movie such as Avatar.
 

Cellmold

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Why is it that I cannot get the term 'confirmation bias' out of my head while reading through this thread?
 
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