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  1. #11
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    On the other side of the coin, there's the whole "That type you're ranting and raving about? Yeah.. that's not my type.. you're describing one that's, like, one letter off from mine."

    Let's also not forget the dozens of people who recognize their own psychological nuances and intricacies by going through different self-typings like candy or through lowercase or 'x' designations, and yet deal with others as if they are cardboard cutouts

    Guess what! If you're so complicated and intricate, then so is everyone else.

  2. #12
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Also N/S and T/F scales have yet to be shown to have any scientific accuracy.

    Not that it means the theory is useless, but, well... it certainly has its limitations.


  3. #13
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    i like all the types, and i can think of at least one person from every type that i hate.

    go figure that shit out, purple!
    we fukin won boys

  4. #14
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Also N/S and T/F scales have yet to be shown to have any scientific accuracy.

    Not that it means the theory is useless, but, well... it certainly has its limitations.

    How would you go about showing how they are accurate using a scientific method? Bear in mind the inherent flaws in tests.

    Im not saying you cant of course, id love to see a scientific study on this stuff, one that really delved into it, rather than being based around group studies that basically hinge entirely on the test that the individuals took being 100% right in the first place.

    I did wonder about neuroscience as in Dario Nardi.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    How would you go about showing how they are accurate using a scientific method? Bear in mind the inherent flaws in tests.

    Im not saying you cant of course, id love to see a scientific study on this stuff, one that really delved into it, rather than being based around group studies that basically hinge entirely on the test that the individuals took being 100% right in the first place.

    I did wonder about neuroscience as in Dario Nardi.
    Well, exactly. It's pretty hard to establish that validity. You could get internal validity by having people do self-assessment over and over again, and checking if from year to year they still believe they are the same type, but testing external validity would be hard. INTP brother and I can agree that he is more logical than me, but how do we establish empirically how logical we are? And then compared to everyone else. Everyone involved would have to learn the MBTI inside out and agree on one interpretation of the theory and then we could still only have a cross-sectional, because assuming some people would change their idea of their type at some time it'd be hard to establish external validity at all... ahhhh... an INTx should figure this out.

    I like the neuroscience route too, but you'd have to wire up a LOT of heads. Sounds like a project for some budding neuroscientist on TypeC....

  6. #16
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    i like all the types, and i can think of at least one person from every type that i hate.

    go figure that shit out, purple!
    I''m the same way, actually. I wasn't saying everybody does what I describe in the OP, so stop being all offended when there's no need to be offended.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #17
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    k wut,,
    we fukin won boys

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Well, exactly. It's pretty hard to establish that validity. You could get internal validity by having people do self-assessment over and over again, and checking if from year to year they still believe they are the same type, but testing external validity would be hard. INTP brother and I can agree that he is more logical than me, but how do we establish empirically how logical we are? And then compared to everyone else. Everyone involved would have to learn the MBTI inside out and agree on one interpretation of the theory and then we could still only have a cross-sectional, because assuming some people would change their idea of their type at some time it'd be hard to establish external validity at all... ahhhh... an INTx should figure this out.

    I like the neuroscience route too, but you'd have to wire up a LOT of heads. Sounds like a project for some budding neuroscientist on TypeC....
    Yes, all of this.

    We have a few potential measures that we could treat as objective or empirical: results from self-report (the more consistent, the better, but we don't even have internal reliability), assessments by experts, and, well, the budding neuroscience stuff. Some of these are more reliable/valid than others, but, no matter which measure we choose, we must recognize its limitations. The measures that involve either self-assessment or outside assessment absolutely hinge upon clear definitions, which.. yeah, we still don't have.

    This sort of thing is exactly my area of research. This shit gets all kinds of conflated and confused, man. Many conversations that occur on this forum that have actually been resolved (or deemed irrelevant) decades ago.


    We may as well come to grips with the notion that, right now, we're clustering people in our own heads in a way that makes sense to (and is useful for) us, but probably doesn't make a lick of sense when thrown out there into the outside world. One consequence of that is this whole business of striving for an 'objective' measure by which to classify other people, sometimes in unwarranted and unfortunately negative ways.

  9. #19
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    We may as well come to grips with the notion that, right now, we're clustering people in our own heads in a way that makes sense to (and is useful for) us, but probably doesn't make a lick of sense when thrown out there into the outside world. One consequence of that is this whole business of striving for an 'objective' measure by which to classify other people, sometimes in unwarranted and unfortunately negative ways.
    Yeah. I worry about what going so deep into this theory has done to my own understanding of people and the world, honestly. Sometimes I think I need to just cut it out, leave, find a new theory. If it weren't for the forum community, I doubt I would have lingered so long. Certainly I've learned much about myself, and some about others, but I think in ways I've also deluded myself, and I now tend to see things in type I never would have looked at in type before - and I wonder if that encourages my mind to create problems that otherwise wouldn't exist.

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i think that people see present through the lens of the past. if they have had some really negative interactions with people who behaves in a certain way, and now see someone new who behaves in similar ways, they tend to unconsciously project these negative aspects of the person in the past to this new person. but this also works with positive and neutral stuff
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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