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  1. #11
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    4 so/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think we need to be careful about Si, because it's frequently misunderstood... as far as I understand it, it's more about drawing wisdom from past experience than about maintenance (lol, maybe in ISxJs it often manifests like that saying about "if it's not broke, don't fix it")... I think it's almost more of an NF thing to romanticize self-sacrifice, as well as cultural traditions... in general, I suspect most SJs will self-sacrifice if they believe that is the most reliable method to achieve their goal. I think that's true for both my ESFJ mom and boyfriend.
    You may be right and I may be assigning the wrong 'motive'/reason, if you will, for Si.

    I guess I was thinking of my ISTJ mom when I wrote that, as what many people typically cite as 'Fe concerns' or 'that's Fe' are things that my mom does, and my mom has pretty much zero Fe and is definitely an ISTJ (one of only a handful of people I can type with certitude, lol). Things like... good table manners, certain social courtesies, expectations/'you shoulds' that she has around various things (mailing thank-you cards), and the like. I think it is more a product of her time/generation/how she was raised, and things that, as you say, she perhaps draws wisdom from (Si/past experience, as tied to traditions/generation she was raised in), but that in many mbti discussions would be things that people might automatically attribute to Fe. That was what I was trying to get across. But now I'm kind of getting off topic and not even talking about the self-sacrifice concept anymore.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #12
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    9w1 sx/so


    I think that's just about duty. Like they just have the rule book of life and follow it to a t. Like it is more important than how they feel or it defines how they feel. It's an odd thing for sure and I'm not sure I'm expressing it right but that's what it looks like from the outside.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #13
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012


    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think Fe may trend more towards factoring in other peoples' needs/opinions/etc in moving towards a decision or in maintaining/guiding relationships, but it can vary greatly amongst Fe users as to motives around this, as well as how much of their own concerns/preferences they bring to the table as well.

    I also think a Culture/group which values Self-sacrifice as one of its leading principles will mean Fe-ers AND Si-ers (i.e. all SJ's, and SFJ's in particular, since they have both Fe and Si) will be more prone to adopting that value. Si is another powerful element that comes into play in embracing and maintaining cultural traditions and principles (which is why SJ's change from one generation to the next -- because each generation has new values/concerns, if you will). I'd actually argue that Si is more of a driving force in all of this than Fe.

    On the other hand, if you're in a culture or group which holds the opposite value ... every man for himself, the self-made man, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps... Fe-ers and Si-ers may be more prone to adopting the opposite ... i.e., a lack of willingness for self-sacrifice.

    As Huxley mentions, though, an Fi-er who personally believes and holds to the self-sacrifice value will be just as likely to be self-sacrificial as an Fe-er who might be that way due to be it being more of a cultural norm.

    Also, as she says, many Fe-ers in fact are NOT terribly self-sacrificial, whether due to the culture they're in, OR the fact that they too aren't blindly led by cultural norms and develop their own beliefs over time. And the fact that in the end, imo, Fe isn't 'about' self-sacrifice any more than Fi is 'about' non-self-sacrifice.
    So what you are saying is that Si, Fi, and Fe all can do this. Wow.

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