Fe and Te?

[Butterfly]

I have been reading some of the things said on this forum, and that has raised some doubts and question in my mind.
I am getting confused about Fe.
People were saying, its mostly 'fake', a lie. Its just to accommodate the other person/group by playing chameleon. This is making me paranoid! Its making me feel Fe is insincere! How do I believe a person who is Fe? Is it what they're actually feeling, or is it just some big show?
Maybe I dont know enough about this theory, therefore arriving at wrong judgment. Feel free to correct me please.
Also, how does the Te work?
Thank you

 

[disregard]

They are extraverted judging functions. People use those to act based on objective (external) standards as opposed to their own subjective (personal) ones.

That's my novice explanation. Bluewing should have you covered on the rest.

 

[nightning]

As Dana said the extroverted judging functions are merely reacting to situations based on external standards. In the case of Fe, there are socially defined "acceptable" and "unacceptable" behavior.

The baseline rule of "being nice to people" results in a lot of chameleon behavior. Going back to chameleon as being fake... whose standard are you using here? The Ti dominant?

Would you call the chameleon, or the squid, octopus fake for being able to adapt to blend into the environment?

It seems Ti distrusts Fe... just as Fi distrusts Te.

 

[SillySapienne]

Fi vs. Fe, got it.

Ti vs. Te, huh???

 

[nightning]

Allow me to quote myself...

It seems Ti distrusts Fe... just as Fi distrusts Te.

As in Ti finds Te a little strange, but tolerable since it can see the logic Te uses (although it does not agree with the method). However Ti does not understand how Fe can "arbitrary" come up with decisions. Decisions that seems inconsistent as it changes from case to case.

Same goes for Fi with Fe... and Fi with Te.

 

[redacted]

all judging functions are deductive.

Te assumes that the outer world is most important
Fe assumes that feelings about the outer world are most important
Ti assumes, well, nothing
Fi assumes feelings are most important

they all factor in the above premises and the information they get from perceiving functions and make deductions.

anyone have thoughts on that?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

anyone have thoughts on that?

Seems about correct to me..

 

[disregard]

Fi makes judgments based on an internal code of values.

Fe, on an external code of values.

 

[Totenkindly]

Ti assumes, well, nothing

Actually, we just assume that at some level, the world makes sense, and we just have to figure out how.

... or... well... maybe not at all. *sigh*

 

[wedekit]

Fi makes judgments based on an internal code of values.

Fe, on an external code of values.

So, could that in some way mean that people with dominate Fi are "be-ers" and people with dominate Fe are "do-ers"?

Sorry if that sounded ignorant. I have had trouble completely understanding the different mindsets of Fi and Fe.

 

[disregard]

Throughout someone's existence as being an introverted judger, they abide by their own code of values (I am saying values because I am only talking about Fi for this post) which has been in creation their whole life. They are concerned with making their own actions congruent with their own values. Extraverted judgers (and this is my perception and understanding) are concerned with making the actions of both themselves and others congruent with an accepted, objective code of ethics.

So you are right. Fi wants to be what it believes. Fe wants to do/see done what it believes.

 

[redacted]

Fi makes judgments based on an internal code of values.

it only cares about the feelings of the present moment. Ni and Si contain the actual code of values you're referring to.

Fe, on an external code of values.

again, the code of values is actually stored in Ni or Si. Fe just cares about the users feelings associated with the outside world in the moment.

Actually, we just assume that at some level, the world makes sense, and we just have to figure out how.

... or... well... maybe not at all. *sigh*

sorry to sound like a broken record, but that assumption lies in the introverted perception functions.

 

[nightning]

they all factor in the above premises and the information they get from perceiving functions and make deductions.

anyone have thoughts on that?

Ti assumes truth is the most important.

So, could that in some way mean that people with dominate Fi are "be-ers" and people with dominate Fe are "do-ers"?

Sorry if that sounded ignorant. I have had trouble completely understanding the different mindsets of Fi and Fe.

Extroverted judging functions are all about "doing" where as introverted judging aims for understanding.

Hence Js have Te/Fe while Ps have Ti/Fi.

 

[disregard]

[Fi] only cares about the feelings of the present moment. Ni and Si contain the actual code of values you're referring to.

You'll need to explain this..

 

[Totenkindly]

sorry to sound like a broken record, but that assumption lies in the introverted perception functions.

Oh, stop hogging all the good stuff for yourself.

I suppose, tho, that Ji functions don't assume anything at all, regardless -- they only process information they actually receive. At best, they can distinguish areas where judgments can be made and where they cannot... and how conclusive said judgments are.

Perhaps that ties into your comments about Fi judging internal feelings only in the moment. It relies on a data stream because it needs something to process.

 

[redacted]

So, could that in some way mean that people with dominate Fi are "be-ers" and people with dominate Fe are "do-ers"?

Sorry if that sounded ignorant. I have had trouble completely understanding the different mindsets of Fi and Fe.

Je people are do-ers because they're focused on conclusions regarding the external world, and taking action can immediately affect that world in accordance with those conclusions.

Pe people are be-ers, or thinkers, because the outer-world isn't assumed to be important. but it can be, and when it is, Ji people will do, too.

Throughout someone's existence as being an introverted judger, they abide by their own code of values (I am saying values because I am only talking about Fi for this post) which has been in creation their whole life. They are concerned with making their own actions congruent with their own values. Extraverted judgers (and this is my perception and understanding) are concerned with making the actions of both themselves and others congruent with an accepted, objective code of ethics.

So you are right. Fi wants to be what it believes. Fe wants to do/see done what it believes.

again, the code of values is completely a Pi thing. Pi takes in new data in the context of overall experience (abstract for Ni, concrete for Si). an Fi person will take in new data, which Pi places, and judge the placement of that data with the assumption that feelings are most important. someone who uses Fi a lot will have an experience constantly molded by the assumption that feelings are the most important, which is where long-term values come into play.

but an Fi person who takes in new data through a Pe will only evaluate the data that it gets from that Pe in that moment. long-term stuff is only at play when Pi is used.

 

[Butterfly]

Thanks for explanations. I understand some, but to be honest, I'm still lost.
Heres the list of confusion:

- If "Fe assumes that feelings about the outer world are most important", then what explains the INTP behaviour of making decisions based on logic (Ti) ??
- "Fi makes judgments based on an internal code of values. Fe, on an external code of values." If thats the case, again where does logic fit into it with those with Ti ? Also with for eg ENFPs who have Te? How does Te come into play with Fi ??

it only cares about the feelings of the present moment. Ni and Si contain the actual code of values you're referring to.
.

Yeah you have to explain this please? As an ENFP I dont have a Ni nor Si. Does this mean I dont have code of values??

Thanks.

 

[redacted]

You'll need to explain this..

hopefully i did in the above post. let me know if that makes sense.

Oh, stop hogging all the good stuff for yourself.

I suppose, tho, that Ji functions don't assume anything at all, regardless -- they only process information they actually receive. At best, they can distinguish areas where judgments can be made and where they cannot... and how conclusive said judgments are.

Perhaps that ties into your comments about Fi judging internal feelings only in the moment. It relies on a data stream because it needs something to process.

i completely agree, except for the bolded section. i still think that's a Pi thing -- judgments made by J functions are seen the the context of experience. the experience tells you if the judgments are useful.

 

[disregard]

It does, thanks.

 

[redacted]

Yeah you have to explain this please? As an ENFP I dont have a Ni nor Si. Does this mean I dont have code of values??

Thanks.

you definitely DO have Ni AND Si.

i've been thinking about this a lot in the last few days, and i'm beginning to think of extroversion and introversion of perceiving functions as a spectrum. how much of the past is weighed into the experience of novel information?

purely extroverted perceiving functions basically don't even exist.

crap, i have class right now; hopefully i'll be able to continue the discussion, but i need to find a power outlet because my laptop battery is done for.