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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Well yes, especially in the case of dominant intuitives because in the words of jung:



    In other words everything less dominant than the dominant is also subject to to it, so for example, Fe would be altered through Ni in an INFJ. The same also goes for those 'lesser' functions as well.
    i dont understand how the thing you say "in other words" is related to that quote from jung
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #32
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    Well, if you haven't caught on yet I'm saying she is mistyped and secondly why does that not make sense?

    You described Si and Ne as: "how things have been before and what seems plausible according to the things that have been before."

    If she is relating and agreeing with the description and that functions definition has always been so she is comparing to how things have been before.

    While Ni-Se is a personalized description based on symbols that the user interprets themselves. So, yes, she could have the same view as another on how Ni works, but that to me shows Si since it goes back to agreeing on a description that is "objectively" interpreted.
    if you want to say that you think she is mistyped, then say so. i dont care to play some riddles, especially if you dont say that we are playing riddles.

    you are taking something i said out of context and twisting it to fit something that it doesent fit in reality. the quote you gave is not a description of Si/Ne, its just part of explanation about how Si/Ne works..

    rest of it makes so little sense and would need so much correction that it makes my brains hurt, so i rather go to sleep than reply more to this
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #33
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i dont understand how the thing you say "in other words" is related to that quote from jung
    Really? Oh well nevermind im sure it is just my flawed intepretation.

    Basically it was merely that what people recognise as Fe or Ti or Se in an INFJ would be different to Ti in a Ti-dom or Se in a Se-dom or Fe in a Fe-dom.

    without making any claim to the autonomy of it's own principal.
    Does that make more sense? I could of course be making leaps of thinking here to get to this point, but if you read into it, it can help explain one of the difficulties in people self-typing....among many others.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #34
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    you clearly added the [conscious] and [unconscious] next to rational and irrational, otherwise it seemed to be from jung.
    well, i didn't, actually, but i don't see any use in arguing with such a shitty attitude.

    how's the weather up there, high-horse?
    we fukin won boys

  5. #35
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    Well, if you haven't caught on yet I'm saying she is mistyped and secondly why does that not make sense?

    You described Si and Ne as: "how things have been before and what seems plausible according to the things that have been before."

    If she is relating and agreeing with the description and that functions definition has always been so she is comparing to how things have been before.

    While Ni-Se is a personalized description based on symbols that the user interprets themselves. So, yes, she could have the same view as another on how Ni works, but that to me shows Si since it goes back to agreeing on a description that is "objectively" interpreted.
    I think it's fairly ridiculous to claim a person as mistyped only because they agree with a definition. We all have the ability to compare and contrast situations, regardless of whether we have Si as a prominent function. She also didn't talk about "how things have been before"; she just talked about her experience with the function. There is no past/present comparison - there is a direct experience/written language comparison. That would require memory retrieval, one Pi function (to assess internal experience), one Pe function (to assess external wording), and T to determine whether they match up.

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    You're gonna have to explain this a bit more because if you don't, it's just not something I buy. Ne users are Si users, but that does not mean that they're always used together. Just because we use Si also does not mean that it's based on something objective. There are certainly many instances of unrestrained Ne which have next to no bases in reality. Flights of fancy that are created through almost random cross-contextual thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    N is the neural road, while S is the end of the road. but N combines these different ends to form a one big scale picture and thats how N is pretty much dependent on S.[...]

    when it comes to Ne having no basis on reality, it does have(like you mentioned, its just almost no basis), but its just not consciously perceived and might be so twisted and facts so abstracted from the thing in external world that evoked them, thats its impossible to recognize them anymore.
    I like the car/road metaphor!

    The way I understand it is points and lines, like on a Cartesian plane. Si is points; Ne is lines on a graph. You must have points to have lines, but there's no positioning - no relevance - of the points without the lines. So Ne depends on Si but Si also depends on Ne. Si takes note of the static qualities of entities. Nature, characteristics, physical properties. Ne takes note of "where" that entity exists in relation to other entities. And then here's the interesting part - Ne must have a collection of Si entities to map anything. Ne doesn't work unless we have Si, because without Si, there's nothing to map. If you couldn't take note of the blackness of the night sky, there would be no other blacknesses to connect it to, like Ne seems to automatically do. It'd be like having a map with no lines. It wouldn't be a map. It'd be blank paper. And then Si is the same way - there'd be no word "black" in language if we didn't use Ne to note the similarity between things. Everything would be its own individual entity - there would be no grouping, no overlap. The world would be chaos to perceive, no connections at all, everything always new: so Si wouldn't work without Ne, either.

    And of course Ni and Se work the same way, just inverted. Time instead of space.

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    well, i didn't, actually, but i don't see any use in arguing with such a shitty attitude.

    how's the weather up there, high-horse?
    You are the one with the "advice reading more jung" attitude. Which is pretty annoying when it seems like you have only read type descriptions from psychological types and not really understood it properly. Now gimme a source where jung says that S is an unconscious process
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #37
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Really? Oh well nevermind im sure it is just my flawed intepretation.

    Basically it was merely that what people recognise as Fe or Ti or Se in an INFJ would be different to Ti in a Ti-dom or Se in a Se-dom or Fe in a Fe-dom.



    Does that make more sense? I could of course be making leaps of thinking here to get to this point, but if you read into it, it can help explain one of the difficulties in people self-typing....among many others.
    in that quote jung is basically just saying that aux cant be as differentiated as dominant one and that aux function serves dominant functions, not overrule it.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #38
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    You are the one with the "advice reading more jung" attitude. Which is pretty annoying when it seems like you have only read type descriptions from psychological types and not really understood it properly. Now gimme a source where jung says that S is an unconscious process
    not before you needlessly condescend in your prior post.
    i would appreciate you not quoting this post. no ground can be gained here, so i'd rather not have a notification that i've received any reply.
    we fukin won boys

  9. #39
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    in that quote jung is basically just saying that aux cant be as differentiated as dominant one and that aux function serves dominant functions, not overrule it.
    Exactly!

    So when people get confused on their cognitive functions this could play some part. Which is why INTJ's, (as an example), as dominant perceivers are not always as logical as they would like to appear because their Te is subordinate to their Ni.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #40
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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