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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    contemplation isnt an automated unconscious process, but is an conscious reasoning, this is about thinking, not intuition
    The way in which it takes information in leads to that though.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    intuition is a perception by intermediate links and you only get the results of that whole chain of associations to your conscious mind in forms of instincts, metaphors or symbols, thus it is an perception via unconscious.

    Ni sets the links between things according to how something fits his own subjective view of things(subjective impressions of collective symbols, impressions of relations between extraverted sensations, personal judgments or personal impressions of judgments of others). Ne sets the links according to objective factor, how things have been before and what seems plausible according to the things that have been before(comparing links of Si data points to understand the big picture of external world).
    nothing here is incorrect, which is pretty awesome.
    but incomplete. when you say "links" it's important to mention that those links are elementary abstract.
    i also appreciate the fact that you mention the unconscious nature of iNtuition -- it's too often left out. but i do think it's important to remind everyone that Sensation is also occupies the realm unconscious functions so we know that the unconscious factor of iNtuition only distinguishes it from Judgement functions, and actually likens it to Sensation.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    If you can relate to this does that make the connective process Ne?

    INTP - How would an Ni relate to this description, or accept it if it does not fit it's impression and how can Ni have an impression if fitting to that impression is connectivity brought by Si and Ne?
    she is Ni dom, so she relates to Ni naturally. i dont understand what you are trying to say. Ni users use Ni, not Ne or Si.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    The way in which it takes information in leads to that though.
    contemplation doesent require N, but ofc N can guide contemplation to certain directions actively(meaning during it), like it does guide our thinking and feeling more often than people realize
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    nothing here is incorrect, which is pretty awesome.
    but incomplete. when you say "links" it's important to mention that those links are elementary abstract.
    i also appreciate the fact that you mention the unconscious nature of iNtuition -- it's too often left out. but i do think it's important to remind everyone that Sensation is also occupies the realm unconscious functions so we know that the unconscious factor of iNtuition only distinguishes it from Judgement functions, and actually likens it to Sensation.
    i dont understand what you mean by elementary abstract or whats your definition of abstractions, but by jungian definitions introverted functions are abstracting ones, so Ni is abstracting functions, Ne is not,

    well sensation cant really be unconscious, unconscious sensation would be subliminal perceptions, which works same way as intuition is defined, so it would again be perception from unconscious and working as instincts, creating hunches etc. which is pretty much the definition of intuition.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  6. #16
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Ne sets the links according to objective factor, how things have been before and what seems plausible according to the things that have been before(comparing links of Si data points to understand the big picture of external world).
    You're gonna have to explain this a bit more because if you don't, it's just not something I buy. Ne users are Si users, but that does not mean that they're always used together. Just because we use Si also does not mean that it's based on something objective. There are certainly many instances of unrestrained Ne which have next to no bases in reality. Flights of fancy that are created through almost random cross-contextual thinking.
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  7. #17
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    my research says differently.

    there are two dichotomous dimensions for evaluation.

    the first includes Introversion and Extroversion.
    indicated by your OP, it appears you understand these elements.
    where Introversion is to focus on the subject, Extroversion focuses on the object.

    the second differentiates Judgement and Perception.
    this dimension is a bit more complicated, as it contains two more dichotomous dimensions.
    Judgement functions are rational [conscious] and, by contrast, Perception represents irrational [unconscious] processes.

    Judgement includes Feeling and Thinking. both rational, both conscious.
    Perception includes iNtuition and Sensing. both irrational, both unconscious.
    i won't get into the valuation of these just yet.

    if we say a Perception "becomes" conscious, what we actually mean is that it is being dealt with by the conscious Judgement.
    i don't like to say that Perception parcels information to be dealt with by Judgement, because it can be confusing, since what Judgement does can also be described as parceling.
    but unfortunately, that's basically what's happening. Perception happens unconsciously. the information is brought to consciousness [or not] and then we make a Judgement over it using Thinking or Feeling.

    Sensing is necessarily concrete, unconscious perception.
    iNtuition must then necessarily be non-concrete, unconscious perception. this is known as abstraction.

    where Sensation makes us aware of our physical environment and/or self, iNtuition makes us aware of the abstractions present in our environment/selves. most commonly, [especially pertaining to Ne] these are "links" between two or more items or ideas. but the links are abstract i.e. not physically present in either our environment or memory.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #18
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    @INTP - Her relating to that function description isn't her relating to Ni as much as her using Si and Ne to recognize she should fit that predetermined mold. So. How does an Ni-user relate to an objective description of itself if Ni is their own subjective view?

  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    @INTP - Her relating to that function description isn't her relating to Ni as much as her using Si and Ne to recognize she should fit that predetermined mold. So. How does an Ni-user relate to an objective description of itself if Ni is their own subjective view?
    It's something ive wondered about myself and it can be applied to either of the introverted perception functions....especially seeing as how a lot of people come up with their own personalised definitions of them.

    Although then again you could say that for any introverted function....
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    INTP - Her relating to that function description isn't her relating to Ni as much as her using Si and Ne to recognize she should fit that predetermined mold. So. How does an Ni-user relate to an objective description of itself if Ni is their own subjective view?
    she is INFJ, INFJs doesent use neither Ne or Si. also, claiming that its Ne and Si to recognize belonging on predetermined mold is just lol
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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