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  1. #31
    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    @INTP

    Alright well, my opinion still stands. I'm just going to agree to disagree on this one.

  2. #32
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    @INTP

    Alright well, my opinion still stands. I'm just going to agree to disagree on this one.
    okay. but just out of curiosity. how well have you studied typology from jungian point of view and other things that relate to typology somehow, like complexes, archetypes, jungian model of the psyche, self-regulation of the psyche, individuation, differentiation etc etc? if you dont have equally good understanding about it from that point of view, how can you make an judgment about the superiority of your neo-jungian self help typology?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Doctorjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    okay. but just out of curiosity. how well have you studied typology from jungian point of view and other things that relate to typology somehow, like complexes, archetypes, jungian model of the psyche, self-regulation of the psyche, individuation, differentiation etc etc? if you dont have equally good understanding about it from that point of view, how can you make an judgment about the superiority of your neo-jungian self help typology?
    I've read his main works.

    And really? Labeling my judgements as neo-jungian self help typology? Grow up.

  4. #34
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorjuice View Post
    I've read his main works.

    And really? Labeling my judgements as neo-jungian self help typology? Grow up.
    lol, mbti, lenores work etc is neo-jungian typology and is for self help..

    you know, you can read one book from jung 10 times and learn something new every time
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #35
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    but the thing is that the functions are just N S T F and I/E of a function just determines whether you see the subjective(in line with deductions or other stuff that you constructed in your head) or objective aspect(in line with the external world or things learned from the external world without making any conclusions/deductions about them) of a function as more trusted one. thus use it as a starting point for a thought, compare the opposite(of subjective/objective) to it and lead back to modify the the preferred attitude if needed. this is why jung usually talked just about N or T when defining the functions, definitions are pretty much the same on the core level, whether you prefer introverted or extraverted attitude of a function, only real difference is whether you see subjective or objective as the more trusted one. naturally the orientation of a function gives some peculiarities to the type, but mostly just when the function is dominant.

    also in jungs view the deal with the undifferentiated/undeveloped functions is that they lack orientation(they dont see objective or subjective aspect as more trusted one), because they arent in conscious control, thus they arent directed to either way, but simply follow/lead other functions in a chain. undifferentiated thinking would be an afterthought of something.

    once you start to develop the function, your ego will start to prefer one subjective or objective aspect of it over another and start to prefer to direct your psyche according to the preferred one, that doesent mean that you dont see the opposite, it simply means that you dont prefer to make decisions according to it or blindly trust the perceptions by it and because this Ni vs Ne is just about preferring one aspect of the function over another, you cant have both Ni and Ne at the same time.
    I agree with the view that there are two perceiving functions and two judging functions, and each has their own orientation (internal or external). But I can't help but feel that you can 'develop' your 'unused' orientation to become a more complete individual.

    But I kinda believe that if that really happens for all the functions, you are sort of consciously deconstructing the ego and that will lead to nirvana or something
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  6. #36
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    Ni is often claimed in a basic sense to orient people to making decisions with little information, and aids the function of living a structured EJ lifestyle. This is just a documented manifestation of the function, and it's a one-way ticket. So in other words, much that I think if you're a P who comes into living a J lifestyle or have grown up that way from the start, it won't really effect your core cognition as an Ne type. Just will effect how you are used to living. Thus, tapping into introversion is really the way to explore Ni, because it doesn't bow to any structure. It's a function dependent on the self only. This is my view of all the functions really, but seems to ring truer for introverted functions.

    Most importantly terms like Ni and Ne from my experience are just indistinct categories we use to separate personalities, and we each assign something unique to ourselves and look for similar people. Putting a billion people into 16 categories more or less. The closest I can come is one questioning how to become more introverted, like how an introverted ENFP is much like an INFJ in that they wield the same strengths, just in opposite spectrums. They are both intuitive types ultimately and have the most commonality within themselves. The question is rather not how to become more Ni, it's fairly easy for an intuitive to use Ni or Ne setting your mind to that style of information for a moment in time, but rather why you chose to be Ne instead and come to terms with who you want to be, already decided by your true terminal self.

    So if you can be intuitive in your extraverted lifestyle, try being intuitive in your introverted lifestyle. The more extraverted you are the more difficult you will find it.

  7. #37
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Meditate of course. Also learn to superimpose your "mind's eye" on the world you actually see like a HUD. Do the latter in a way so that there is no conflict between what you see and what "is actually" there.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  8. #38
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I agree with the view that there are two perceiving functions and two judging functions, and each has their own orientation (internal or external). But I can't help but feel that you can 'develop' your 'unused' orientation to become a more complete individual.

    But I kinda believe that if that really happens for all the functions, you are sort of consciously deconstructing the ego and that will lead to nirvana or something
    i have quite opposite view on function development. imo undeveloped/undifferentiated functions work unconsciously(arent consciously directed) and when they arent consciously directed, they lack orientation and work sort of as slaves to developed functions.
    but this view comes from how unconscious mind works, i think the unconscious mind works with themes, while conscious mind works in concrete concepts. these themes are formed from unconscious associations around the theme that the unconscious mind works with, while the concrete concepts are formed from consciously recognized things that make up the concept.
    so when a function that works unconsciously works with the theme(or complexes in other words), they lack orientation, because the thing that its working with is not consciously recognized either as external or internal and it works with things that are mixture of unconscious associations.
    i should mention that the thing with developed functions is that its an conscious process(or at least developed through lots of conscious processing), or at least specialized process, where it has done the same thing consciously so many times that it works automatically. even tho this automatic process is not conscious, its not what is meant as unconscious in psychoanalysis or analytical psychology, so its not equivalent to jungian shadow or freudian unconscious. both of those theories lack this concept of automatized functions of mind(not talking of cognitive functions, but i think it applies to them also in many cases), which are evident in todays psychology.

    but when functions do work consciously, even if its one of those four functions that you suck at, then they do have an orientation.

    however i think inferior makes an exception with these undeveloped functions lacking orientation. thats because orientation of dominant function is the one that ego prefers and opposite it wants to repress. this repressed content goes into shadow and shadow manifests itself through inferior. i think while ego is the central operating system in the consciousness, shadow operates the unconscious mind in similar ways and has its opposite preferences to ego(this is why inferior for INTP is Fe, its the repressed judging function, which also has the repressed attitude).

    but im just rambling here and most likely arent making much sense
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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