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  1. #31
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ?

    But how do you know when you have looked at enough patterns?

    That the patterns you have seen are representative of the infinite number of patterns possible?

    Is there a way to do that, or is that just a personal choice?
    You know you've looked at enough patterns when the same pattern starts appearing in front of you time and time again.

    No, there's no way to proof that what you've seen is "enough" in that it encompass everything. But it is good enough in explaining most things. Don't sweat over the little things. The basic pattern can be known... the exceptions are just that, exceptions.

  2. #32
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    @ all the talk about Ni taking the rug out from under Ti.

    for me, Ti can make a conclusion, and Ni just stores it away as an analysis of ONE perspective. then it sends Ti another perspective, which Ti analyzes and Ni stores away. Ti works for Ni, shining light on one frame of reference at a time.

    it's not useless at all. even an Ni dominant has to choose a frame of reference when talking to people. the thing for me is, Ti is like Ni's employee. it doesn't have the most important job, but it does a ton of support work.

    it's not like Ni dominants sit around all day without being able to stay in one perspective for more than a second.

  3. #33
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    My problems with Ni is that Ti needs a stable frame of reference in order to build something, while Ni automatically jerks the rug out from underneath -- "What you say, Ti, makes sense if you look at it from THAT angle... but what if you look at it from THIS angle?"

    You build a house (Ti) in one dimension, the house does not exist if you bamf into a different one. Or the rules of nature that exist in one dimension might not exist or exist differently in a different one.

    So Ni can easily *invalidate* any structure Ti creates, without offering anything in its place.
    exactly! they don't fit together when Ti wants to pay extremely detailed attention within ONE SCALE, take time, and understand how things relate in a slow and methodical way, while Ni is zipping around flip-flopping between different perspectives, different levels of scale, focus, etc. it can be a little spastic and we just need to slow down and hear what Ti has to say, it takes its time for a reason. yet Ni is about global thinking, and we've already rushed to many conclusions immediately based on our well-honed conceptual instincts, Big Picture, theoretical framework, metaphorical domains, etc... it can be a very productive pairing, but each side has to listen to the other more than it usually finds enjoyable.

  4. #34
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    first off, i think we should ignore functions. but thats for personal reasons. i think they complicate things and i think the only thing they are good at explaining is WHY the temperaments (and types) are what they are but nothing else.

    second, i think if that were true then it would also have to be true that Te and Ne also would not work well together. this, of course, is not true. function order now comes into play. Ti and Ni cannot be in close proximity by definition of how functions work together. there must be something in between. lets take the INFJ. their function order would be Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. there is a barrier, the Fe, that the Ti filters through. so in a sense it is correct that Ti and Ni do not work together because naturally they cannot filter into each other being that there is some sort of buffer in between. also, one is a perceiving function and the other is a judging function so they are just on other planets to begin with. this brings me back to my original point on why we shouldn't use functions. i truthfully just made that up. i have no idea if its true. i didn't read it anywhere. its complicated. it barely makes sense (that could be my fault). it also doesn't explain anything at all in terms of the INFJ or any other personality we may be talking about. if we stuck to temperaments i think we would find that they explain quite a bit more and in a much simpler way.

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

    Albert Einstein
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    second, i think if that were true then it would also have to be true that Te and Ne also would not work well together.
    Would it?
    That's an interesting leap.

    Ne still works within particular dimensional constraints; Ni does not. Ne is probably far more suited to work in conjunction with other functions in order to implement something, Ni has a different goal.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    pardon, Ne and Fe

    and for the personality you may substitute whatever you see fit. it should still make sense within the given example

    and my overall point was the quote at the bottom
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  7. #37
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    second, i think if that were true then it would also have to be true that Te and Ne also would not work well together.
    NeTe works just fine for me actually. They don't conflict, since they are developed for me.

    I often get a lot of crazy ideas, but when I put some rational thought into the ideas then they can sometimes be adjusted to be a reality through Te. A good example of this is when I am thinking of possibilities, I will get an idea and then I will slosh it around in my mind to see if it actually makes sense and if it's applicable.

    EDIT: Oh I just saw your other post. But yeah.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #38
    Systematic chaos Cenomite's Avatar
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    I'm working on a project with an INTJ friend of mine. So we have a Ti secondary working with an Ni primary.

    It does cause a few problems because we always see completely different solutions to problems, and constantly need to explain to each other what our ideas are like and where those ideas came from. There are some disagreements about which direction to take things in terms of problem solving a lot, and neither of us are usually 100% clear on what the other is envisioning.

    Once we get on the same page though, it's a pretty powerful combination. So far, it's the best and most efficient team I've worked on (if you can count 2 people as a team). Between the two of us, there's not much (if anything) that doesn't get figured out
    The probability that I was procrastinating when I was typing this post:

    P(have big assignment due) = 0.6
    P(posting on TypoC) = 0.2
    P(having big assignment due | posting on TypoC) = 0.7

    P(posting on TypoC | having big assignment due) = .......


    Eh, I'll finish it later.

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