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  1. #11
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Well Ti by itself doesn't hardly trust its own conclusions. It likes Pe 'cause Pe will test them out. Ni will not. There's another place they won't collaborate -- experimentation.
    we fukin won boys

  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    The differing semantics implicate different situations. One uses Ni first and then employs Ti for verification. The other uses Ti first, and Ni perceives Ti's formulation.

    Can you bring an antithesis to the table?
    It's when Ni isn't interested in verification outside what can easily be perceived and Ti doesn't want perception beyond what it has already perceived.

    The verification of Ti is quite final. Ni wants to stretch out possibilities and perception very deeply and wouldn't want Ti interfering. Also, if Ti already KNOWS what's going on, why would we have Ni in the first place? Ni wishes to distort reality. Any verification of the Ti variety would cut off this ability.

    Ti would get angry when Ni will take what Ti decides is 'truth' and will continually stretch it, put it in multiple contexts, and do too many things with what Ti decides is extrapolation of what Ti has found. Too much distortion for Ti's tastes.

    Although, this is just repeating what I've just said. Each is stretching things in a direction that each other doesn't want. It would be extremely useful to be able to switch back and forth between the two, but that isn't usually possible.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #13
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    why wouldn't someone using Ni want Ti "interfering"? Ti can analyze how things fit into Ni's explorations. Ni by itself is too openended to really do anything. it needs a judging function. extroverted judging kindof puts an end to Ni's exploration, but introverted judging can analyze just for analyzing's sake.

  4. #14
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Perhaps some of what Ti does will halt Ni's mental travel, but it might just as easily, even in the same situation work furiously to devise a method to support the very same exploration.

    In fact, it's when Ti can't deduce anything in favor of intuition that it deems it irrational and puts a stop to it. Still, intuition, even extraverted intuition, (despite its worldly inclination discouraged by Ti's damnation) might like to play with a possibility even after Ti says it's a nono.
    we fukin won boys

  5. #15
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I was trying to explain how they wouldn't go together, not as how they would go together. They can go together, but I was trying to say how they'd obviously conflict. If they weren't able to find how they could support each other, they would fight.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #16
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    yeah. seems like they can work well together -- but there are certainly ways they wouldn't work very well. same is probably true for any functions that don't pair up to form a type.

  7. #17
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    A lot of what I've heard, especially recently has been for the notion that Ni conflicts with Ti. Not that it gets in the way like a dam, but more like a fork in the river.

    I can say I certainly agree with this, but I don't think it's always true. I can just as easily see Ni and Ti work together.

    Of course I don't by any means think that in these situations they will both end at the same point or that they reach for the same things. I only suggest that they can work in harmony without canceling one another out.

    I'd like to see what others think on this, and why.

    Emphasis on why. Give an example or something.
    Well, if I really am an ISTP, I would have both. I identify strongly with both, and don't think they're incompatible. I would have an awful lot of internal conflict if they weren't compatible, right?

    Ti is how I spend most of my day, in solemn contemplation, just thinking about random stuff.

    Ni is like a flash of the big picture that helps direct my thinking.

    If you really want an example, the other day I was on the back porch listening to the cars on some distant road, and I got this idea of the energy from the cars moving along the surface of the earth. It was rather indescribable, and as I'm sure you have already assumed, this was probably from introverted intuition.

    Well, after I got that flash of vision or whatever it was, it got me thinking about energy and entropy, and how the world is changing, and what would happen if you took all that energy from below ground and concentrated it in these rivers of highways above ground. That was the introverted thinking.

    So like I implied, the introverted intuition helps give me weird new things to think about. They don't always make sense, and I rule some of them out with the introverted thinking logic. The ones that haven't been ruled out go into my mental world-view; the big picture.

  8. #18
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    are you looking for an example where both functions are being used equally? As in, it's not Ni-Ti nor Ti-Ni, but equal usage of both at one time? (and then the question: is that possible?)

    my Ni is almost as strong as my Ne.

    am wondering if a psychic would be an Ni/Ti user.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  9. #19
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    When you say being compatible, I am inferring you to mean work together. If so, are we not missing an obvious basic principle of Jung? Two functions of the same attitude (E/I) cannot occupy the same space. You are either Ti-ing or Ni-ing, not both simultaneously.

    As for being similar I understand that they both like complexity. However Ni foresees implications in lieu of external data. It may be fuzzy. Ti analyzes but not without sufficient external data. It clarifies and defines something based on principles. Ni is future and/or past oriented (like Si) and Ti is present oriented. Ni conceptualizes new ways of seeing things, Ti checks whatever has their immediate attention, for inconsistencies.

  10. #20
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Ni conceptualizes new ways of seeing things
    it seems to me like all Ni does is see new information in the context of it's giant conceptual framework. Ni by itself cannot change its own framework, either. it can only tell a judging function where the new data fits. if the judging function outputs that the fit isn't so great, Ni will take that as input and then output a place where [both the original data and the judgment] fit. the judgment function then processes that. the process repeats until the judging function sees no inconsistency in the placement of the original data. the overall framework of Ni is thus changed.

    insights are actually the work of the judging function analyzing some piece of the overall Ni framework in response to new data.

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