User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 27

  1. #11
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    Hmmm, but aren't heroes usually ISFP? ... I don't think ESTJ heroes are that common compared to ISFP and ESFP heroes in fiction.

    What are some famous Ni-dominant villains? (that we're speaking of)
    An ESTJ hero isn't the point -- the point is to scare the audience with these villains. Also, it's not necessary that even the author be ESTJ (I'm inclined to say that most authors are NOT ESTJ), it's just in the underlying fabric of the culture, which would bring out dominant Ni villains.

    Also, an ISFP would have tertiary Ni -- enough to maybe appeal them to this 'dark side' that Dominant Ni comes up with, but not enough to join them. It's enough to give some connection, some proof that they may actually be a little alike, but not enough to draw the 'good' character to be 'evil.'

    Just from the typelogic INTJ page alone:

    Cassius (Julius Caesar)
    Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)
    Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
    Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis
    Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet)

    Hmm... most of these aren't even modern villains. Perhaps the root of this goes deeper than I first thought...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #12
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Yes, I can see what you say about action movies...So will women's literature will have female antagonists who are opposite to ESFJ? Or would it still be based on ESTJ?

    What is our culture's female ideal type?

  3. #13
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    5x/o
    Posts
    1,271

    Default

    I'm just saying that it's not necessarily true that it is a 7th function bias from ESTJ culture that results in the Ni villains- you found it just as easy to describe it as a 3rd function mistrust from an ISFP standpoint.

    And why specifically Ni? I can't think of any INFJ arch-villains (if anything, in movies I'd think they'd fall into the mentor type). If anything, it's really INTJs with the most mastermind-genius-with-complex plan thing that usually gets played out... or sometimes, when the story is more "rise-against-the-structure"- the villain is an ESTJ type (but perhaps I've seen too many teen movies). Which would suggest to me a Te bias.

  4. #14
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    I'm just saying that it's not necessarily true that it is a 7th function bias from ESTJ culture that results in the Ni villains- you found it just as easy to describe it as a 3rd function mistrust from an ISFP standpoint.

    And why specifically Ni? I can't think of any INFJ arch-villains (if anything, in movies I'd think they'd fall into the mentor type). If anything, it's really INTJs with the most mastermind-genius-with-complex plan thing that usually gets played out... or sometimes, when the story is more "rise-against-the-structure"- the villain is an ESTJ type (but perhaps I've seen too many teen movies). Which would suggest to me a Te bias.
    It's not 'mistrust' for these ISFP heroes, it's the appeal of Ni as tertiary. There's still some room for Ni to 'bond.' It's the risk of the dark side that's there, not necessarily a mistrust of it -- and the character is usually portrayed as 'naive' to have seen it the same way as the villain.

    I'm looking at this from the standpoint of a theory. If you have enough information to prove me wrong, go ahead.

    Can somebody name me some INFJ characters? The only one that I can think of at the moment is Huey Freeman from The Boondocks, and he's certainly neither. If anything, he's portrayed as the 'misguided hero.' He may have some points, but it's always the status quo that wins. Then again, that's the appeal of the show.

    What I see is that the 'regime' is built in more of an ESTJ fashion, but the villain is still fundamentally Ni-dominant or Ni-auxillary. I think I overlooked Te bias because it was too goddamned simple, but I do agree, most of Te bias is in young adult stories rather than ones aimed at a wider or older audience.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #15
    heart on fire
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    Horatio Hornblower (in the novels, not the TV series) is INTJ, he's presented as a hero, but a misunderstood one that makes other people uncomfortable.

    Micheal Corelone in the Godfather is an example of INTJ protagonist as well.

    Mr Darcy is a sex symbol!

  6. #16

    Default

    The 7th function is properly the "Trickster" who is usually more dubious than evil. Really, the villain can be playing any of the shadow function archetypes (i.e. Opposing Personality, Senex/Witch, Trickster or Demonic Personality), depending on their role in the story.

    Hell, Tricksters can even act as catalysts with their mischief. The 7th function is not where I'd expect an outright villain to be.

  7. #17

    Default

    If you want an INTJ protagonist, how about Paul Atreides in Dune?

  8. #18
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The WhimWham View Post
    The 7th function is properly the "Trickster" who is usually more dubious than evil. Really, the villain can be playing any of the shadow function archetypes (i.e. Opposing Personality, Senex/Witch, Trickster or Demonic Personality), depending on their role in the story.

    Hell, Tricksters can even act as catalysts with their mischief. The 7th function is not where I'd expect an outright villain to be.
    Where would you expect it to be?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Where would you expect it to be?
    Any of the other three.

    I'm a Star Wars geek, so I'll use that as an example:

    Darth Vader: Te Opposing Personality
    The Emperor: Ni Senex/Witch

    Or, if you've seen Terry Gilliam's Brazil, you've got Michael Palin as an Ni Opposing Personality, Mr. Helpmann as a Te Senex/Witch and Bob Hoskins is an Se Demonic Personality.

    Someone like Bender in Futurama is, IMHO, a classic Trickster (Se, in this case). He's neither "good" nor "bad", and indeed, that's the whole gag.

  10. #20
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The WhimWham View Post
    Any of the other three.

    I'm a Star Wars geek, so I'll use that as an example:

    Darth Vader: Te Opposing Personality
    The Emperor: Ni Senex/Witch

    Or, if you've seen Terry Gilliam's Brazil, you've got Michael Palin as an Ni Opposing Personality, Mr. Helpmann as a Te Senex/Witch and Bob Hoskins is an Se Demonic Personality.

    Someone like Bender in Futurama is, IMHO, a classic Trickster (Se, in this case). He's neither "good" nor "bad", and indeed, that's the whole gag.
    So we are going on the assumption that it matters what the character of the hero is matters more than the setup of the culture in which the hero is geared toward?

    Does the trickster archetype necessarily match up to the trickster archetype of the 8-function model?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

Similar Threads

  1. Strength of Functions: Dominant and Auxiliary
    By proteanmix in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-13-2014, 05:50 AM
  2. Cognitive function order and test results
    By Giggly in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-03-2011, 06:26 AM
  3. Political Bias and Irrationality
    By La de Longe in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-01-2010, 04:09 PM
  4. Political bias and Social relationships
    By Blackmail! in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 03-03-2010, 06:47 PM
  5. How to determine function order and what the functions mean... AS A NINJA
    By BlackCat in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-13-2009, 07:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO