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  1. #11
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    OMG I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!

    it's seriously the thing that pisses me off most about all the XNXX hate threads (actually it may be the thing that pisses me off most on this whole forum).

    people within a type show a great deal of variability. and cognitive functions don't directly measure personality.

    sometimes when i talk about how i don't identify with the traits most of the INFJs on this forum seem to agree on, people suggest "further exploration", etc. so annoying.

    seriously, thank you for posting this.

    Disparaging a type based on one person of that type is another kind of bias. The reasoning goes like this "I hate my (mom, dad, sister, grandmother) who's X, therefore I hate all Xs."

    Someone will post (often in an Introduction thread) "And I can't stand ISFJs" [or even SJs]. Inevitably it comes out the person hates his mother whom he's determined is an ISFJ. We see this over and over again.

    Jae Rae
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  2. #12
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    Disparaging a type based on one person of that type is another kind of bias. The reasoning goes like this "I hate my (mom, dad, sister, grandmother) who's X, therefore I hate all Xs."

    Someone will post (often in an Introduction thread) "And I can't stand ISFJs" [or even SJs]. Inevitably it comes out the person hates his mother whom he's determined is an ISFJ. We see this over and over again.

    Jae Rae
    Often people seem to embrace the unhealthy shadow as being the definition of a type.

    So... they see someone's shadow, and they decide that that shadow is a type (say, an ESFJ for an INTP). Whenever they see that unhealthy shadow behaviour, they attribute the type ESFJ to it.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Lol, people are nuts. It's incredibly hard for me to believe that all human beings can somehow fit into, and be defined by, a mere 16 personality archetypes.
    Why?

    You can categorize "male and female" with some large degree of success, as long as you accept the categories are very broad and don't expect a lot of specificity for a particular individual.

    I agree that some people aren't as easily categorized as others, and that people aren't DEFINED by their category.

    I just don't see the point in following an either/or philosophy with typing: "All people can be typed and defined by their type" or "it's ridiculous to think people can be typed at all." It's more complicated than that.

    (And yes, it's sort of funny reading these posts -- people, including myself, are naturally responding pretty much how I anticipated.)

    When I was first introduced to the MBTI, and subsequently discovered that I typed as an "ENFP", upon reading the profile, I remember feeling literally *shocked* by how accurately the type description reflected not only who I was as a person, but also why I was who I happened to be.
    To be honest, I have no idea what type you are. I guess you're hard to categorize.

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    it's seriously the thing that pisses me off most about all the XNXX hate threads (actually it may be the thing that pisses me off most on this whole forum).
    The hate threads piss you off?

    They weren't really supposed to be taken that way, were they? Weren't they more humorous or at least casual?

    (Right here is where, if I was a stand-up comedian, I would say something like, "Oh gawd, what a typical INFJ -- taking everything so seriously.")

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I just ran into that yesterday when a poster questioned my type because I don't like cats.
    Now THAT, I agree, is irksome.

    (Everyone knows that only mutants or aliens like cats. And they like them on a nice bed of white rice, with terayaki sprinkled liberally overtop.)

    More seriously... I like cats and find dogs annoying. My best friend has a very similar personality - but he hates cats and loves dogs. I don't get him. He doesn't get me. Same type. Different pets.

    Lots of variability.

    This is reminding me of all the old wives' tales about how to detect a liar -- like the idea that depending on which way one's eyes go when asked a question, that tells you whether they're accessing "real memory" or "making up something." *eye roll* (And what happens if someone's just filling in gaps in a real story, or else has already inserted false ideas into the real memory banks? nothing definite there.)

    No single details can paint a picture of someone, there's no real smoking gun. It's the arrangement and relationship and CONTEXT of all the details that help to paint a more accurate picture.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Default Rant that I expect no one to read or understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I think most people need something to believe in, whether it be God, Christianity, or the fact, er fiction, that they are an ENTP.
    This really gave me some great brain food for the day.

    It's true--people feel more content when they know who they are in reference to something greater.

    I don't agree or disagree with it.. I like it, because I identify with this behavior, and what is more important.... being right or THINKING about the qualities that you associate with whatever you are identifying with and making internal decisions as to what is important and as to what can be glossed over?

    Thinking about them. Who cares if you aren't really a "calm, gentle soul that likes to read" ... when you read that statement, you think: Ah.. I AM a calm, soul, but gentle? Who cares about being gentle. And I do like to read, and more people should.

    You are forming your identity by internally disagreeing with "What you Are" even if you may externally identify with it.

  5. #15
    To the top of the world arcticangel02's Avatar
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    After having met another ENFP, I realise that the way I see myself is quite different when reflected back at you as another person.

    Sure, we have similarities, and if I wrote it down we'd have a LOT in common. However, I never looked at her and went OMG she's me! It took me a while and a bit of observation to eventually type her as that.

    And so I try my hardest not to use myself as a type reference, because from inside things are different than from the outside. I'm not going to be seeing the inside of another ENFP.

    However, although I don't type people based on who they remind me of (or who they don't), I definitely like using the people I have typed as examples of that type. It's so much easier in my mind to remember that an INTP is like this because my friend behaves like this than it is to read something on paper...

    I try and type as many people as possible so I get that internal database of type characteristics, so that I have a rough practical knowledge of the types. I find until I know someone of that type, I find them very difficult to picture.

    Of course, sometimes it doesn't make it easier (I have two ISTJ friends who are not much alike at all, which confuses things), but it is a good starting point, I think...

    So I think associating characteristics and the like is useful in informing your descision when typing someone, but by no means should it be the sole reason for doing so.
    ANFP:
    Extraversion (52%) ---- Introversion (48%)
    Sensing (26%) ---- iNtuition (74%)
    Thinking (16%) ---- Feeling (84%)
    Judging (5%) ---- Perceiving (95%)

    9w1 so/sx/sp

  6. #16
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The hate threads piss you off?

    They weren't really supposed to be taken that way, were they? Weren't they more humorous or at least casual?

    (Right here is where, if I was a stand-up comedian, I would say something like, "Oh gawd, what a typical INFJ -- taking everything so seriously.")
    whether or not they were "supposed" to be taken a certain way doesn't mean i'm not allowed to be bothered by them. some people just list negative traits of one person they know of a single type, say INTJ, and call them INTJ traits.

    either i can defend INTJs and point out the large amount of personality variability or i can say nothing. and if i point it out, i look like an idiot who takes things too seriously.

    not only that, but when i act outside of "the realm of INFJ traits", my type gets questioned. and when other INFJs (who may or may not be correctly typed) take some stance, it sometimes gets applied to the general idea of INFJs, therefore it gets applied to me.

    i came to this forum to learn.

  7. #17
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Today my INFJ friend and I walked by my INTP friend's desk only to find her sitting there crying.

    After some cajoling, she finally told us that she felt like we were alienating and avoiding her. We were both pretty shocked about it. Her observations of my behavior (I will only speak for myself) were not incorrect. I was avoiding her but not for the reasons she thought. She's been so busy and stressed out over the last month that I thought it was better for her if I just left her alone and not bothered her so much to chit chat or take walks outside because I'd be interfering with her work or be considered mother-henish or letting my extroversion run unchecked. But today I realized that's just me thinking she'd perceive me that way. Has my friend ever given me any indication that she thinks of me that way? I trust her enough to say so (and she's done it!). I tried to take my knowledge of her type and apply it to the real world, by doing what I see so many INTPs say they want done when they're bothered by something.

    This over road my natural instinct to go to her and ask her what's wrong and be more of a presence because I could tell something wasn't right. This isn't even the first time this has happened with an INTP friend of mine and after it was over, she finally said that she thought I was distancing myself from her.

    This is why MBTI is useful only to a certain point. I feel like that can never be said enough. I used to find people asking questions about how to help another type so useful until I applied the "help" and it ended up backfiring to a certain extent. I did this with an INTJ friend of mine and got the a similar response, they thought I was being distance when I thought I was giving them their space.

    Too often have I come across people who don't do what their type "should" do. Thankfully, not many people I know are as serious about MBTI as I am so the merging of type and identity doesn't really occur, or rather they don't attribute those traits with a type. They are just who they are.

    And when I think of it, I don't think I'd really like to be dealt with as a "type." I'd rather be dealt with as an individual. I don't deny that generally my traits add up to a certain type, but I don't have all the traits of that type. Giving someone a type already primes you for a certain set of expectations of behavior which aren't always incorrect, but are limiting in a way because the person using type may disregard the more salient characteristics.

  8. #18
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    It sucks for the invalidator but only partially for the invalidated -- because when one does that, all it results in a statement saying: "Regardless of who you might be, I will perceive you this way." Because, repeat after me, type is meaningless. When one's type is so invalidated, nothing actually changes -- it's simply a notification that the other side would rather conform to a more narrow minded perspective.
    Amen.

    Regardless, people do stupid things all the time. Attempting to type people may be stupid, but there are much stupider things to do with one's time, and everyone deserves some time to be stupid (some insist on having more time than others).

    The fact that MBTI is split into sixteen types of psychology rather than just two (male and female, as the general populace likes to split up psychology). Just by numbers you're likely to get more accuracy with sixteen than two, or even four. It can guide some predictions and help with rudimentary understanding of people (which some of us lack). It may not be usable to the extent that a lot of people here appear to be using it, but that doesn't make it completely useless.

    I find a lot of people here insist that they have ISFJ mothers. Now, there could be multiple reasons for this... but one may be that ISFJ just seems like a motherly 'type,' and the way that a mother, especially from certain generations, may be expected to behave, would connect to ISFJ.

    As for 'types I hate' and whatnot, I mean... I think both my dad and my brother are INTP. I don't like my father so much but I love my brother to death. This doesn't change my love for them, I just simply see a lot of the same traits...

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