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  1. #11
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Well I don't really agree, as by definition Feeling is a judging function. I'm pretty sure I know what you're getting at though. Since Fe's judgment is predicated on environmental factors, the judgments it makes are much more context-dependent than those of Fi. I tend to think of myself as less judgmental than most people, but that's a different definition of judgment. Evaluating is closer to what I mean when I'm talking about judging functions.

    Much of what you're talking about I would say takes place inside Intuition and Sensing. Those are the functions that actually define the parameters of the evaluation, and where openmindedness actually comes into play.

    I understand not everyone has the same way of thinking about the functions, this is just how I divide up cognitive tasks in the framework I'm using.







    In general, I think judging mostly says "yes". So it's not necessarily that visible when it's happening. When you realize, wait a sec, that's not good, or that's not consistent, that's when it's clear you're using Judging, even if it only accounts for maybe 5% of actual usage.



    I would say this is true for Judging dominants as well. I don't define a dominant function by it's literal use in terms of % cognitive computational power. I think generally Judging takes up a very low percentage of cognition (think of all the tasks involved in just labeling what's happening around you, it's ridiculously computation-heavy). The difference between a Judging dominant and a Perceiving dominant might be something like 5% of total cognition to 7% of total cognition.



    Sure, it's just when you actually get into the nitty gritty of what Sensing and Intuition actually do, it seems clear that they do much much more than Thinking and Feeling combined. I once took a class on visual perception and it's mind-boggling how much of the brain is used on something we think of as so simple.

    I'm not surprised Jung thinks of T as a judging function, as he was Ti dom. Since Ti was his gatekeeper function, it necessarily judged for him what went in and what went out. I think he just lumped F in with T because it was neat, and he wasn't quite sure what to do with F (which further supports that he was INTP as well), because his definition of Fe is just completely inaccurate, and I've studied it extensively, as least in his P.T. book.


    And I can perhaps see that because I'm Ni dom.


    But my Fe does not make judgments. It interacts with other living things, colored by my Ni predominatly, and other functions as necessary. It is actually my Ni, my gatekeeper function that makes any and most judgments that happen, followed by my less dominant Si . I think, indeed, that an Fe doms' Fe makes judgments, but that is because everything taken in is filtered with Fe, lending it a judgmental feeling.


    As to your last sentence, I doubt an F or T dominant would agree. Their personality is such that most everything they experience is colored by their thinking or feeling. Yes, their brain might perceive or intuit massive amounts of data, but how much is usable will be determined by how it works with their dominant function, and will be dependent upon their environment at the time. Also, our ability to tap into large areas of visual perception in the brain might be more linked to our sense of sight, and not so much Se, for example, which implies an additional step of consciously understanding what you are perceiving.

    As an example, IxTPs are always filtering everything through their Ti, thinking about how to make more workable connections in processes, to make things work, or to figure things out (even people). Their perception, therefore, will be limited by this dominating function, at least most of the time, in normal circumstances.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  2. #12
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    @AphroditeGoneAwry: I have a feeling we would probably type people similarly, so I don't think our narratives about MBTI are inconsistent. They just have drastically different internal structures. I'm respectfully disengaging since I don't think I can bridge the narrative gap.

  3. #13
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    ^Yeah, i understand. I'm used to T's doing that with me already, because I'm always throwing out what is considered "known and accepted."
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #14
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I am able to switch types. Takes about an hour to really dive into a mindset. T is like this tightness in your chest. You don't feel -anything- not even the wind. It is like pure impervious to pain form. Also, everything is a lot faster in T. There are no conversations including mental dialogue. F.. I can't speak about F cause I'm in T mode. F thougg is like marmalade to T's granite

  5. #15
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    ^effing interesting. more please.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I am able to switch types. Takes about an hour to really dive into a mindset. T is like this tightness in your chest. You don't feel -anything- not even the wind. It is like pure impervious to pain form. Also, everything is a lot faster in T. There are no conversations including mental dialogue. F.. I can't speak about F cause I'm in T mode. F thougg is like marmalade to T's granite
    Now you're talking from the perspective of an F. Your description of T sounds more like suppression.

    Not sure what you mean by "no conversations". You mean like with people in your head? It might be the case most of the time, but I don't think it's necessarily true. Bullshit from the outside world can play back in an ITP's head. In fact, here's a quote from Thomson's book.

    The more ITPs defend themselves against the Extraverted Perception they actually need, the more powerful their Extraverted Feeling impulses become. Such types pay a good deal of attention to the way people react to them. The famous scene in Taxi Driver in which the main character rehearses his response of percieved disrespect, "You talkin to me? You talkin' to me?" is a larger than life illustration of the kind of concern extreme ITPs experience.

    Their indifference to others is paradoxically combined with the idea that people are trying to make them look bad or treating them with disregard. Both types tend to take such disagreements into the public arena. ISTPs respond in a direct physical manner. INTPs spend time and energy worrying about their professional reputation or defending their thoughts against percieved attacks in scholarly journals.

  7. #17
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I've noticed in T mode colors seem less intense, also your entire face feels more stiff, depth perception, hearing, and smell are enhanced. Shoulders and torso move in conjunction. Head positioned more toward the back. Body language is stiff but not in the case of tp as much.. seems like tp has limbs looser but neck/head not so much. Et is more "phony" in terms of posturing this is why extjs will back down when confronted esp (physically). God there is so much it is hard to be specific and I know this post will be taken out of context as it is. Ask me something specific or describe a situation and I'll break it down.

    @KDude: high adrenaline + testosterone mitigates pain. It is not about "suppressing" anything. It's more like *shrug* rolls off your shoulders. Also, if you think it is impossible to experience something then you'll never experience it.

  8. #18
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Speak to the thought processes. what type do you feel like most right now? And compare it to your favorite F type.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #19
    Anew Leaf
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    Yes, when I go into "S" mode I experience a similar transformation.

    My body snakes into an S shape and I slither to and fro around my home. I notice details popping out at me like fireworks. My brain gets fuzzy with actual thought and instead I hone in on the sensation of sounds and the desire to make a fort that is perfectly rectangular with pillows in my living room. I also start reading People magazine online.

    When I go into "N" mode I stop eating for weeks at a time and I explore the wonders of the universe from my living room.

  10. #20
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    you are such an ass.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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