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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    and if i may add to the principle 5 bit more



    "pathways are not really isolated structures. in a sense every pathway in the brain has a relationship to every other pathway, given by their mutual position in this single universal grid structure"

    these pathways arent the neurons themselves and does not make any sort of information processing. however, they transfer information from neuron to neuron, this way connecting the neurons and allowing interaction between them and in a larger scale between the brain areas. i should add that those are just the major highways in the brains, illustrating more how even more distant areas are connected. neurons themselves organize each other close to other neurons processing similar things and are connected to other neurons which are at close range and related to similar concepts.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  2. #12
    Junior Member Srytka's Avatar
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    So, mine would be I/J (equal percentages of each) > T > n > s > f > e/p.

    That actually makes a lot of sense, provided I'm understanding correctly. People, generally speaking, are not entirely one or the other. Most lie somewhere in between, and this shows a more accurate depiction than a straight typing. For example, most of the time, people see my INTJ and don't realize that I still have a fairly strong sensory capability, it just isn't quite as strong as my intuitive grasp of patterns and theories.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srytka View Post
    So, mine would be I/J (equal percentages of each) > T > n > s > f > e/p.

    That actually makes a lot of sense, provided I'm understanding correctly. People, generally speaking, are not entirely one or the other. Most lie somewhere in between, and this shows a more accurate depiction than a straight typing. For example, most of the time, people see my INTJ and don't realize that I still have a fairly strong sensory capability, it just isn't quite as strong as my intuitive grasp of patterns and theories.
    MBTI tritypes are capable of preserving the system without relinquishing dichotomies. Nobody claimed that you are 100% intuitive. But the absolute distinctions still exist. Jungian functions are not like hot and cold water, where Reynierse is now claiming that there are degrees lying in between what are really just states of water, or the ripeness of a banana, and so on.

    So I take back my previous statement that there's nothing wrong with Reynierse's theory. I now think it's wrong for him to characterize Jung as propounding a theory of opposites when "in fact" there are none. These opposites do exist. Hot is not the opposite of cold, but thinking is the "opposite" of feeling in the sense that thinking types and feeling types are often opposed to one another in that they come to very different conclusions as to what is valuable.

    What's missing in Reynierse's theory is an explanation of how "preferences" such as T and F lie on the same continuum. It could be that some traits lie on a continuum while others do not. T and F can't very well do so. P and J, perhaps, as well as I and E. But there can be no continuum lying between T and F, or S and N, because they do very different things.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  4. #14
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    So I would be: JFNI

    Hah that's exactly backwards.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #15
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Won't be a surprise to anyone on here, but I'm fine with this sort of thing. Tend to agree with many of @Hemd 's points as well.

    I'm also non-plussed about any neurological 'studies' as tied to cog functions (i.e. Nardi- I don't take any of that as proven science/facts). But, I've covered my thoughts on that topic in the relevant thread.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #16
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    N = F > P >> E
    I think =)
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  7. #17
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    Most consistently I would test PNFI or PFNI.

    I tend to get INFP on most MBTI tests, but I have gotten anything from ENFP to ENTP to ISFP to ESFP.

    On functions tests my highest function is Fi and my lowest are my Ts.

    PFNIestj

    J is actually my weakest preference despite people always crowing about how much Te I'm using; that is unless I take certain functions tests which may give me high Fe or Ni, giving me an INFJ result.

    J in the four dichotomies is about things that have nothing to do with being opinionated. I have been 100% P on more than one test.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    No doubt villagers have already been dispatched. "Stay where you are... hurt is on the way!"



    I'm not sure I buy Reynierse's revision completely, but I think it's interesting and kind of pleasantly mind-bendery. I'm still mulling it over. As I said above, it seems more like a way to add something that's missing from the Big Five: much idea of interaction between traits.

    Still, empirically there's been very little evidence that the MBTI dichotomies are dichotomous or that type dynamics exists (as Reynierse covered in his previous articles). I certainly give JPT (which is published by APT) props for showing open-mindedness by publishing Reynierse's series of articles attacking type dynamics and suggesting an alternative model.
    I mean I guess the point of it though would be to correlate to functions, anyhow. My having P as my strongest letter and I as my weakest suggests I'm probably an ExFP by Jungian theory.

    The problem with all of this is that it wants to shove people into very particular boxes, like Keirsey says you play one role the best, and that SPs are most different from NFs, but honestly I think I play the FP roles the best especially Champion, Performer, and Composer...ironically, less Healer, though I get INFP on nearly every test modeled after the MBTI (and on the official MBTI).

    That's why I tend to like function theory more, once I got the hang of it, and started to learn it, and it wasn't some big insane puzzle.

    On Nardi's cog function thingy I'd be an IxFP, though, like my MBTI results.

  9. #19
    Junior Member Hemd's Avatar
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    @INTP
    you say about Reynierse work "stupid mistake in thinking due to not understanding the fundamentals of the test or theory behind it. "

    I hear this argument so often regarding critic on Mbti and functions i can't hear it anymore. Even Mbti officials use it regularily (Quenk for example). It's stupid. If anyone is not your opinion you simply say he doesn't understand whats it all about. Great solution! You can apply this in any discussion to anyone. It doesn't occur to you that maybe these people actually do understand the theory very well, and exactly because of that they think it is wrong? I read Reynierse papers and he does understand type dynamics very good. He even addresses exactly that point, e.g. function enthusiasts claiming that critics don't understand the system. They do. But they don't agree with it.

    @Mal+
    "Reynierse has not proved empirically that anything is "bunk." He is simply tossing out some ideas systematically and letting the individual personality tests themselves provide the "proof."

    You are wrong. He has empirically proved exactly that. You can read it in "James H. Reynierse, “The Case Against Type Dynamics”, Journal of Psychological Type, Issue 1 2009". There he compared the assumptions made by type dynamics and functions about behavior to the real behavior of the people. And these assumptions didn't prove correct. Type dynamics didn't even met chance results: in some cases the opposite functions where better descriptions of the behavior than real ones. So what is type dynamics worth if it doesn't fit with real behavior? Nothing. Its only a mind game. An intriguing one, but not a realistic one.


    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I'm also non-plussed about any neurological 'studies' as tied to cog functions (i.e. Nardi- I don't take any of that as proven science/facts). But, I've covered my thoughts on that topic in the relevant thread.
    There is no real scientific evidence whatsoever that brain regions are tied with MBTI preferences or functions. It's only theories within the MBTI followers bubble, no independently accepted studies. In Big Five theory there are many real studies relating personality factors to brain regions and chemical reactions in the brain. There are some accordances, but not so high you can clearly assign brain regions to behavior. Because Neuoscience isn't that simple.

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemd View Post
    INTP
    you say about Reynierse work "stupid mistake in thinking due to not understanding the fundamentals of the test or theory behind it. "

    I hear this argument so often regarding critic on Mbti and functions i can't hear it anymore. Even Mbti officials use it regularily (Quenk for example). It's stupid. If anyone is not your opinion you simply say he doesn't understand whats it all about. Great solution! You can apply this in any discussion to anyone. It doesn't occur to you that maybe these people actually do understand the theory very well, and exactly because of that they think it is wrong? I read Reynierse papers and he does understand type dynamics very good. He even addresses exactly that point, e.g. function enthusiasts claiming that critics don't understand the system. They do. But they don't agree with it.
    he made multiple mistakes in his paper that showed his lack of understanding on jungs typological system, which is what MBTI is measuring(but explains type in very simplified fashion). im not pro MBTI, im pro jungian psychological types. MBTI does add some important things on jungs typology, but fundamentally, its just overly simplified version of jungs typology, which lacks many important things.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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