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  1. #11
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I know 4 ENFPs, they're terribly extraverted according to my definition. They take the initiative with ppl, they get things going, they have new ideas other people agree upon.
    4 isn't very many, and those ENFPs probably have another side of them you don't see that needs ample amounts of time alone (apart from myself and the ENFPs I know this to be true of, it's also in most of our type descriptions). I'm arguing I think it's also somewhat true for many ENJs and ENTPs
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  2. #12
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    4 isn't very many, and those ENFPs probably have another side of them you don't see that needs ample amounts of time alone (apart from myself and the ENFPs I know this to be true of, it's also in most of our type descriptions). I'm arguing I think it's also somewhat true for many ENJs and ENTPs
    I'm not sure what you're arguing about. People definitely need time alone. It doesn't have much to do with their preference towards extraversion or introversion, merely towards people or lack thereof...the way typical extraverts spend their "time alone" is still typically E, IME.
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  3. #13
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I'm not sure what you're arguing about. People definitely need time alone. It doesn't have much to do with their preference towards extraversion or introversion, merely towards people or lack thereof...the way typical extraverts spend their "time alone" is still typically E, IME.
    it has quite a bit to do with it.
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/introversion
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extroversion
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I'm not sure what you're arguing about. People definitely need time alone. It doesn't have much to do with their preference towards extraversion or introversion, merely towards people or lack thereof...the way typical extraverts spend their "time alone" is still typically E, IME.
    Agreed.

    Every EN friend or family member I have had, is so clearly an extrovert, even if they are doing stuff on their own, it's ridiculous. My INTP dad would try and do "social" things with my ENFP mom so he would invite her out to a movie. She always refused and finally one time she said very exasperatedly, "What is social about going to a movie?! You can't talk to each other, you just sit there in a dark room where there just happens to be other people!" My dad and I laughed.

    The problem often lies in how society views what an extrovert and introvert are. All too often the label of "shy", "antisocial", "withdrawn" gets attached to introversion in a negative manner. So unless you are looking at the Jung definitions and then looking objectively at yourself, it can be very easy to mistype in that manner. I have an ENTP friend who balks at my declaration that he is an extrovert. "But, Saturned, I HATE people! They are SO annoying!" And I think, yes you are 100% correct, however your energy comes from interacting with other people... so yeah.

    Amusing.

  5. #15
    Glycerine
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    EN's are deluded on the I/E spectrum. I'm EN?J so I should know. lol

  6. #16
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Agreed.

    Every EN friend or family member I have had, is so clearly an extrovert, even if they are doing stuff on their own, it's ridiculous. My INTP dad would try and do "social" things with my ENFP mom so he would invite her out to a movie. She always refused and finally one time she said very exasperatedly, "What is social about going to a movie?! You can't talk to each other, you just sit there in a dark room where there just happens to be other people!" My dad and I laughed.
    I don't completely agree with your mom, but I can definitely see where she's coming from with this LOL

    The problem often lies in how society views what an extrovert and introvert are. All too often the label of "shy", "antisocial", "withdrawn" gets attached to introversion in a negative manner. So unless you are looking at the Jung definitions and then looking objectively at yourself, it can be very easy to mistype in that manner. I have an ENTP friend who balks at my declaration that he is an extrovert. "But, Saturned, I HATE people! They are SO annoying!" And I think, yes you are 100% correct, however your energy comes from interacting with other people... so yeah.
    Amusing.
    extrovert (at least, in jungian terms) =/= gets energy from interacting with people. in the case of ENPs (and to an extent, ETJs) extroversion has more to do with being energized by live mental stimulation that one can interact with (though in the case of EFJs, this definitely means people). given the example of the movie, I can relate to this because you can't interact with a movie. a video game on the other hand, I can interact with, so, while i do enjoy movies and documentaries, video games give me more energy.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    yeah i get what you're saying but i don't know if that Ne or Sx. maybe thats Sx. (but i can't tell the diff cause I'm sx-dom for sure)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    Intuition works better 1-1; Sensing information on the other hand is easily transmitted to groups of people. because of this, ENXXs will often feel out of place in groups thinking "how am I supposed to exchange ideas with this many people?!"
    when was the last time you tried to have a serious intellectual group conversation? chances are one of 3 things happens
    1) everyone just agreed
    2) 2 opposing sides popped up that started bickering and
    3) 1-2 people ended up doing all the talking while everyone else got bored and stopped paying attention completely

    on the other hand, Sensing information tends to be much more easily transmitted from 1 person to a group of people. "the meat was red", "I punched him in the face" "my cat was so cute sitting by the window". the communication of Sensing information tends to be more one sided.
    1) person A gives a piece of data
    2) person B receives the piece of data
    3) that's that
    there's little room for response or interpretation (at least, not from the use of more Sensing)

    Intuitive information on the other hand operates on more of a back and forth, exchange sort of basis, and this works much better one-one. new concepts are brought up, questioned, explained, elaborated on, and tied into various contexts.

    I don't mean to say that Sensors are incapable of being intellectual (that would be like saying Intuitives are incapable of driving a car or following a routine), only that Ne and Ni tend to be more at home in the realm of 1-1 convo while Se and Si tend to fair well in communicating information to groups (though, obviously, both will have to do both. you can't just give the theoretical principles 1-1 and the detailed data to groups. they're completely different types of information and both are necessary to communicate fully). for this reason, ENxx types frequently mistype as introverts.

  8. #18
    Member DisneyFanGirl's Avatar
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    You've really cleared up a lot of things for me. While I'm more sure than ever I'm an extrovert, I do tend to act a lot like an introvert. I like to focus on my own interests, like the definition said, but instead of just thinking about them on my own, I prefer to seek out more and more information about them and share that information with others. The more I find out about something I'm interested in, the more energized I become. Bouncing my ideas off one or two people energizes me. Merely thinking about them and mulling them over in my mind doesn't give me very much energy because I simply have to talk to someone about it.

    But don't get me wrong, I'm very shy and socially awkward. I may love to talk to people but people make me nervous at the same time. And I definitely value my alone time. I think I'd go nuts if I wasn't allowed to be by myself for an hour or so per day. But keep me alone for too long and I feel like I'm going to explode with frustration!!

  9. #19
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    I think I tested as introverted when I was younger because I was shy, awkward, and Ne driven- I lived in a world of ideas. My level of sensing was next to nothing. Now, I've gained more confidence, and I tend to be obnoxious (as I have been called repeatedly by introverts) around people. Especially a lot of people. My brain works more quickly and I tend to be able to include everyone. Sometimes, I end up lecturing people when I talk about my ideas, and why I think they would work, or what not. So my Ne doesn't always focus on just one person.

    Which reminds me- I can get really overwhelmed trying to tell multiple people the same thing at different times, and trying to cover everything. Which sucks.

    I introvert during mundane work (if I extrovert, often it manifests itself in the form of talking to other people/distracting myself) but I kick into super Ne mode in group projects. Often talking to myself and giving directions.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

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  10. #20
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    Intuition works better 1-1; Sensing information on the other hand is easily transmitted to groups of people. because of this, ENXXs will often feel out of place in groups thinking "how am I supposed to exchange ideas with this many people?!"
    when was the last time you tried to have a serious intellectual group conversation? chances are one of 3 things happens
    1) everyone just agreed
    2) 2 opposing sides popped up that started bickering and
    3) 1-2 people ended up doing all the talking while everyone else got bored and stopped paying attention completely
    Hey look, this is what can happen with any conversation! If people start talking about sports or their work, chances are any of these will happen too! If you are an Ne dom who is having issues with conveying ideas to a lot of people then you probably have some issues. Just sayin. A lot of Ne doms use other people to help generate and feed their ideas. Ne doms seem to be gifted with the ability to make others listen to their insight and perspectives. That DEFINITELY seems 1 to 1 oriented only, am I right?

    u mad? sounds like you need more friends with similar views. I'm an S who can't get many Ns to listen to my ideas and thoughts.

    on the other hand, Sensing information tends to be much more easily transmitted from 1 person to a group of people. "the meat was red", "I punched him in the face" "my cat was so cute sitting by the window". the communication of Sensing information tends to be more one sided.
    1) person A gives a piece of data
    2) person B receives the piece of data
    3) that's that
    there's little room for response or interpretation (at least, not from the use of more Sensing)
    y u so mad? Also this information would be easily relayed to an individual. What if this information is about things on an individual basis? A subjective basis? If you can relay this supposed sensing information more easily to a group, then you can easily do it to an individual. If an intuitive can relay things to an individual, it can easily be done to a group too. It's outside of typology as to what decides this; and I'm sorry but hating S's won't solve your social problems.

    Intuitive information on the other hand operates on more of a back and forth, exchange sort of basis, and this works much better one-one. new concepts are brought up, questioned, explained, elaborated on, and tied into various contexts.
    Ever hear of a very simple concept called brainstorming? You know that there are people who enjoy doing this in groups and that there are groups that naturally tend to do this, it all depends on people's interests. I'm an SP who enjoys finding possibilities, who knew? If you find an N who isn't interested in the same things as you are, chances are that they won't do this shit.

    I don't mean to say that Sensors are incapable of being intellectual (that would be like saying Intuitives are incapable of driving a car or following a routine), only that Ne and Ni tend to be more at home in the realm of 1-1 convo while Se and Si tend to fair well in communicating information to groups (though, obviously, both will have to do both.
    Wow, where to begin...

    Okay so Si is better at communicating to groups? Do you even know what Si is? Si is a perception function based off of a person's subjective experiences, and what the person finds reliable. Si, if anything, is seriously better left for the person. A lot of SJs make contact with others through Fe or Te, which is naturally reinforced by Si... but you don't just simply communicate your personal Si to a group. If anything it would seem like SJs would find an individual who they feel has similar values to them, and then let them in on their Si. Not group oriented at all IMO.

    I'd say SPs on the other hand are pretty adept at communicating pretty much ANYTHING to ANYBODY because SPs just have a very solid grip on everything going on that is relevant.

    Ni is oftentimes incomprehensible even to the user themselves. Not really much communication there. Like the SJs I'd say the the NJs interact with Te or Fe.

    And like I said above, Ne gets more ideas and feeds onto the information that they know based on external input, which includes people. I just really don't understand what makes it so hard for NPs to do this? If anything the ENPs I've known have made understanding concepts very easy for others. Pe is decent in any realm, external or not, because it gets external information. Pi is more individualistic. You are also implying that Se and Si are very similar, which is total BS.

    you can't just give the theoretical principles 1-1 and the detailed data to groups. they're completely different types of information and both are necessary to communicate fully). for this reason, ENxx types frequently mistype as introverts.
    I'd say that ENXX types mistype as introverts occasionally (keyword) because ENP's dominant function is an internal process, yet gathers data externally. So they can seem to be very much in their heads and in the clouds; misleading some to think that they are "I". I rarely see ENJs mistype themselves as INJ; a lot of the time they are pretty solidly E types. I'd say that social last variant ENJs could possibly type themselves as a somewhat stereotypical introvert depending on their circumstances.

    those ENFPs probably have another side of them you don't see that needs ample amounts of time alone (apart from myself and the ENFPs I know this to be true of, it's also in most of our type descriptions). I'm arguing I think it's also somewhat true for many ENJs and ENTPs
    extrovert (at least, in jungian terms) =/= gets energy from interacting with people. in the case of ENPs (and to an extent, ETJs) extroversion has more to do with being energized by live mental stimulation that one can interact with (though in the case of EFJs, this definitely means people).
    So in your opinion, ENFPs and other ENXX types NEED time alone, yet get energized by people? Wouldn't that imply that they need people more than alone time? Also, you mention that they are energized by mental activity and not people just afterwards. It sounds like you're contradicting yourself.

    These aren't Jungian definitions. Jungian and normal/society's definitions of E/I are vastly different. A lot of people in society, even extroverts will say stuff like "I've been pretty introverted lately, since I've been working on some things by myself". That's pretty clearly not Jungian.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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