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Thread: Signs of Ni

  1. #71
    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    Hmm...this is a good idea for a thread, considering how I myself often get Ne/Ni mixed up.

    Anyone have any examples of each type in action?

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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    Hmm...this is a good idea for a thread, considering how I myself often get Ne/Ni mixed up.

    Anyone have any examples of each type in action?
    I'm not good at describing this sort of thing, but here are some possible statements and not actions per se:

    Ne, "I want to start up a business selling a product or service based on the latest innovative software technology."
    Ni, "I have always dreamed of writing a best-selling sci-fi or fantasy novel."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'm not good at describing this sort of thing, but here are some possible statements and not actions per se:

    Ne, "I want to start up a business selling a product or service based on the latest innovative software technology."
    Ni, "I have always dreamed of writing a best-selling sci-fi or fantasy novel."
    Okay, I think I finally have the hang of this Introversion vs Extroversion thing.

    Extroversion: Reacts to environment.
    Introversion: Reacts to self.

    So an Ne-user would be more focused upon carrying through with an aspiration (such as a job they'd like to do someday), while a Ni-user would be more concerned with coming up with an imaginary scenario in their head and then...well, maybe acting upon it less directly?

    Another example:

    Ne: "Someday...I wanna be a pilot. I wanna feel the thrill of flying, cruise the skies, and make use of the technology mankind has developed to accommodate for our lack of wings!"

    Ni: "Hmm...I wonder what it's like to be a pilot? *suddenly gets a vivid mental image in their head of being a pilot, and an impression of what it'd be like, how their superiors would behave to them, how difficult it is to operate the machinery*"

    I'm definitely an Ni-user, which leaves me with a tendency to daydream. While it gives me a creative flow, I can come off as kinda lazy because I don't 'act' as often upon my ideas. Because I am auxiliary Fe, I only really act upon my Ni-generated ideas when I have support from others. And it also doesn't help because I have this constant compulsion to be 'on call' for everyone and anyone all the time, even though it never lets me get anything done... ._.;;

  4. #74
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    Okay, I think I finally have the hang of this Introversion vs Extroversion thing.

    Extroversion: Reacts to environment.
    Introversion: Reacts to self.

    So an Ne-user would be more focused upon carrying through with an aspiration (such as a job they'd like to do someday),
    No, think about innovation carried out in practice. The new software, an idea for a business. "Someday" doesn't matter, Ne and Ni don't experience time as a regular flow of events.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    while a Ni-user would be more concerned with coming up with an imaginary scenario in their head and then...well, maybe acting upon it less directly?
    An Ni possibly came up with the innovative software, or the principle behind it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #75
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribonuke View Post
    Anyone have any examples of each type in action?
    Here's a rather trivial one:

    The phone rang the other night. My INTP would be thinking of all the people it might be, calling for various reasons, and would just spew out these possibilities if asked. I, on the other hand, couldn't shake the single idea that it was a specific relative, calling to inform us that an ill family member had just died. I was correct.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Senior Member Ribonuke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Here's a rather trivial one:

    The phone rang the other night. My INTP would be thinking of all the people it might be, calling for various reasons, and would just spew out these possibilities if asked. I, on the other hand, couldn't shake the single idea that it was a specific relative, calling to inform us that an ill family member had just died. I was correct.
    My condolences. =(

    I used to think I over-estimated my own intuition by thinking something was wrong when it wasn't. Like...worrying that I was about to receive bad news that a family member had died whenever my dad would call while he was with my ailing grandmother and cancer-ridden aunt. But I realized that 'worrying' isn't the same as 'knowing'.

    I remember a couple years ago, our family dog went missing after we let her outside. For five, grueling days we searched for her and felt the angst of hoping to find her. On the fourth night, I finally resigned myself to the fact that "she wasn't coming back home". I just...felt like she wasn't. I felt like I was ready for her to be 'gone' forever. The next day, within the first half hour I had gotten up, I received a phone call from my mother, shrieking in despair after receiving a call from highway patrol that they found our dog dead on the side of the freeway. Needless to say...it was a really bad month for the family. (Everything's okay now, though; we adopted a young rescue dog who needed a home!)

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    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    It is really nice to have Coriolis around as she does all the explaining for the rest of the INTJs, and does it well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It is really nice to have Coriolis around as she does all the explaining for the rest of the INTJs, and does it well.
    Agreed.

    I often read her posts, and say, "That was nice. Now I don't need to chime in."

  9. #79
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    @Zarathustra
    That was a pretty interesting post!

    Random thoughts:

    1- If I had to pick a random stock tip, knowing only the person's mbti, NPs would likely be the last choice. I agree with you in this aspect.

    2- I think NJs are the most vulnerable to overconfidence, and that's something deadly in financial trading. Otoh, when you are comfortable working with multiple possibilities (an area on which NPs excel), you more easily get yourself ready for the most unlikely events, aka black swans. And those are events on which obscene sums of money are lost (or made) , depending on which side you are. I bet there were a handful of very skilled NTJs running this hedge fund:

    Long-Term Capital Management L.P. (LTCM) was a speculative hedge fund[2] based in Greenwich, Connecticut that utilized absolute-return trading strategies (such as fixed-income arbitrage, statistical arbitrage, and pairs trading) combined with high leverage. The firm's master hedge fund, Long-Term Capital Portfolio L.P., failed in the late 1990s, leading to a bailout by other financial institutions, under the supervision of the Federal Reserve.[3]

    LTCM was founded in 1994 by John Meriwether, the former vice-chairman and head of bond trading at Salomon Brothers. Board of directors members included Myron Scholes and Robert C. Merton, who shared the 1997 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for a "new method to determine the value of derivatives".[4] Initially successful with annualized returns of over 40% (after fees) in its first years, in 1998 it lost $4.6 billion in less than four months following the Russian financial crisis requiring financial intervention by the Federal Reserve Bank, and the fund closed in early 2000.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Te...tal_Management

    3- That's why I think NPs have more long term potential as traders than NJs, but, more often than not, it will remain a potential. :p
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I think NJs are the most vulnerable to overconfidence, and that's something deadly in financial trading.
    I wouldn't go to NFJs for this kind of work, and ENTJs are more guilty of overconfidence than INTJs.

    Believe it or not, INTJs tend to have plenty of doubt about things.

    We just work to eliminate that doubt as much as we possibly can.

    In this line of work, that tends to be through extensive research.

    And, believe it or not, Ni is good at juggling multiple possibilities.

    In fact, I'd say it's far more adept at doing so than is Ne.

    It just does so with an aim of narrowing it down to the right one.

    Or, when that's not possible, by figuring out the probability weightings for the various possible scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Otoh, when you are comfortable working with multiple possibilities (an area on which NPs excel), you more easily get yourself ready for the most unlikely events, aka black swans. And those are events on which obscene sums of money are lost (or made) , depending on which side you are.
    Well, Black Swan events don't come around too often, and so, while you can make a lot on them, if you get them right and time them right, they're not exactly something you can do on a regular basis. Maybe once a decade or so. But aside from that, as I said before, I think you're mistaken in thinking that NJs (and NTJs is who I'm really thinking about here) aren't good at juggling multiple scenarios, and I also think you miss the point that juggling too many scenarios and not figuring out the right probability weightings for each of them is why the NPs are bad at this stuff. That's the ability that Ni has that Ne doesn't, really, that makes NTJs superior at this stuff. Talk to an NTP and the number of black swan scenarios that could be possible would be countless, and they wouldn't know what the hell to do as their mind leads them in a million different directions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I bet there were a handful of very skilled NTJs running this hedge fund:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Te...tal_Management
    What LTCM was doing is much more in line with the kind of quant stuff I talked about in that post, which I associated more with NTPs. In fact, LTCM, and the actions by the Fed and others to save them, in a lot of ways helped create this mess that we're in. Everyone figured out what LTCM was doing and started copying it, and that's where you got that big herd effect from quant-based hedge funds (and investment banks essentially acting as hedge funds) that I described. That being said, while I'm familiar with LTCM and John Meriwether, I haven't looked into it deeply enough to have a say about what type he is, or what type others who were there are. Scholes, who helped come up with the Black-Scholes method of options pricing, is another one of the progenitors of the quants. I used to work with a guy who was formerly a rocket scientist at NASA who was undoubtedly an INTP who was obsessed with this mathematical side of things. Sometimes I would talk to him about things and explain all the context about why a particular idea was a good investment and he seemed completely blind to that kind of reasoning, all he ever wanted were the numbers. It was like the real world didn't actually exist, it was all just a numbers game. Don't get me wrong, the numbers are extremely important, and in this line of work you're constantly working with numbers, but, for this guy, and for other people with this mindset, they are so obsessed with the numbers I think they lose sight of a lot of other important stuff. That being said, this guy was generally a pretty good investor. I pitched him plenty of good investments that he missed, though, despite the fact that there were all kinds of signs I'd make him aware of that pointed, imo, in a particular direction, but that were not strictly mathematical, and thus, in his mind, were not proper evidence to take into consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    3- That's why I think NPs have more long term potential as traders than NJs, but, more often than not, it will remain a potential. :p
    Mmm...

    Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

    For this line of work, I'll take the type reputed for their ability to make accurate predictions.

    I'll take an INTP for, well, whatever it is you guys do... manning gas stations... or liquor stores.

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