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Thread: Signs of Ni

  1. #381
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Hey look....Ni turned into a tangible being: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rzkCkFIus

    ps: Any excuse.....

  2. #382
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I can die in peace now.

  3. #383
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Hey look....Ni turned into a tangible being: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rzkCkFIus

    ps: Any excuse.....
    I'm sorry, that would be Ne.

    No self-respecting INxJ would take ownership of that. :p
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

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  4. #384
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I'm sorry, that would be Ne.

    No self-respecting INxJ would take ownership of that. :p
    It was a joke about misunderstanding things and seeing them as gibberish.....

    That video is essentially gibberish. People here were arguing about the definition of Ni as each recognises it, some of it makes sense and a lot of it was gibberish, including what I was saying as a lot of it is also personal not to mention subjective. You were looking at it from a creativity point of view that was not intended.

    In any case I hope you had not missed the 'any excuse' part of my post. Any excuse to post it? Etc? See where im heading with this?

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    And in the end we tend to forget the fact that all our science today is based more or less only on theories, and the theories are changing from one decade to another.
    Is that a fact, eh? Does that mean it's going to be invalidated as well?

  6. #386
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    "All" of our science? Is this what people really tell themselves. Most science is observation. The data might change because tools might change, but even then, many things can be measured with accuracy. It's not a theory on what the chemical composition of Jupiter's atmosphere is, for example. Earth and spacecraft instruments can tell you. Not theorize. The other half of science is theory, and much of that is relegated to theoretical physics.

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Hey look....Ni turned into a tangible being: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rzkCkFIus

    ps: Any excuse.....
    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I'm sorry, that would be Ne.

    No self-respecting INxJ would take ownership of that. :p
    Hey! Where'd you guys find that video of me practicing my bagpipe playing??? On my unicycle...

  8. #388
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    And in the end we tend to forget the fact that all our science today is based more or less only on theories, and the theories are changing from one decade to another.
    Science is based on observations. "Theories" are the explanations scientists give for how the world works, based upon what they have observed. A scientific theory is thus the accepted best current explanation of something based on observed facts to date. It does not have the uncertainty associated with the word theory in common usage, when we say something is "just a theory". Because theories are rooted on observation, they will change and evolve when additional observations are made that cannot be explained by the accepted theory.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #389
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    I am certainly Te and e5 biased but I will try to remove their influence as much as I can. .
    I could write more but this is already too big in a way for now it is best that it stay only on this. Especially since this might be difficult to read.




    The very idea that you will try to define Ni with a definition that has 2 or 3 lines means that you will probably miss the point or get the wrong picture about it.

    Also I disagree that Ni (dom Ni) is hard to notice ….. if a person is truly a Ni-dom it will stick out almost all of them time in the group of 10 people.



    The problem is that Ni is not a thinking function it is a perceiving function, despite the fact that it is often perceived my others in that way. The core of the problem is that unlike other perceiving function it has no ….. I would call it a “Constant approach”. All other functions have this well defined perspective: Se sees the world directly, Si stands more as a concrete database, Ne is usually just an explosion of possibilities in all directions.


    But with Ni it is not that simple because Ni is actually your awareness of your own perspective. (plus some other things) So instead of just perceiving the data you also can clearly perceive the way how you perceive and visualize the data/information.


    Have you even seen the how the light works in the clubs at night? You have a few parallel beams of the same color and you have a few of those reflectors with different colors.

    Now when the atmosphere heats up (analyzing starts) the reflectors start to jump and/or some to of them start to blink fast or slow.


    What means you have perspective 1 and perspective 2 that is turned off when perspective 1 is active. Then you have the perspective that is the other way around 2 is active 1 is inactive. Then you exchange them a few times just so that you perceive all of the differences between the two perspectives. (already mentioned perceiving about perceiving) After that you might try to exchange them really fast and see if something else will bubble out from beneath the surface. (usually there is nothing)


    After that you turn the perspective 3 and then you go through this all over again and after that the 4th one. However if the problem is trivial you will probably want to stop here because this is enough perspectives and it is better to start solving the problem, especially since the optimal solution is obvious. (since it is a simple problem)

    Also you might want to turn all perspectives on and allow them to move just as club reflectors and in a second there will probably all merge in one point in the darkness of the club finding out the object that wasn’t observable if all perspectives are not active, since you need them to lighten the object from all sides. (so you can study it)



    And that is why INTJs (and INFJs) are often concerned that there might be something more in the equation that we can’t directly observe since the perspective must be complex or multiple for you to notice the x object in the dark ….. while others around you are just enjoying their Friday night.


    But I am afraid that it is not that simple … to define Ni.


    The catch that all of this can just be a perspective 1. So you might to try a different approach like sorting out the things and then choose the perspective that would in your opinion have the biggest effect. For example will you sort out things as pieces of a cake or you will use the pile method. But since you have a lot of to show maybe it is better to use the piles because the ratios are more visible since the height represents the amount while on the cake model the elements that are rare would be hard to notice.

    Plus if you used this way of showing the data you have one more thing you could do. Let’s say you have the 10 piles on your graph that is showing the actual state. However then you can again change the perspective. In other words there is no need that the piles on your graph should be seen in so static way as they are represented. For example you can move all of them in one direction for one place. (the last will become first and others will me moved for one place)


    This is pretty useful tool because it allows you to have a picture of something that does not exist but in theory it is possible …. And to make things more complicated you can move the whole thing for a number of place, you can even change the …. 3 and 7th pile and 9th and 6th.
    Literally you can swap them or you can rename them so they keep their original value


    Thus creating a new model which could be useless or it can be exactly what we need to maximize or what we want to maximize. And this is where people usually start to freak out because their logic is much more static, everything should be as it is presented and that is it. If we are creative we will try to find some patterns and that is it …. and if we are paranoid we will think about did the counter count everything right. But the overall model is static since the order and definitions are constant. I personally never understood why this is the case but that seem to be working for them.






    For me IQ tests never make any real sense, what is the point of pattern that does not represent anything. If it is a line, line, line why I am intelligent if I add another line? Why can’t I place a circle? The outcome is the same. May be the circle is exactly what is needed, after all the circle provides at least some balance if we presume that we need a balance or everything must be a in a prefect pattern. What is pretty dumb idea in my opinion.




    Also in my opinion Ni is often directly in confrontation with Fi and does not allow for Fi to become permanent or static and developing a stabile belief system.

    1, It eats a lot of inner space so Fi does not manifest
    2. Makes everything mobile so there is not right atmosphere to develop something completely static as rigid as a belief system.

    Sometimes it makes since to feed a child and sometimes makes more sense to about millions of them in pregnancy. Purely on situation it depends which is a better and more optimal option.







    Once on this site a person asked me how can I sort 20 scenarios and courses of actions in a few seconds. The funny thing is that I am pretty sure that the person never even realized how 20 scenarios are actually simple as a model.

    But of course the person’s Ne is doesn’t allow the proper perspective.

    The Ne logic would be a dot and 20 arrows in all directions, without and obvious end since they are possibilities. Plus there is no strong judgment that would sort this.

    But in my head it goes a little bit differently. You have s starting dot (let say on the bottom of the paper) above that you have 4 dots (a1,a2,a3,a4) , above that you have 3 dots (b1,b2,b3) and at the top of the paper you have 2 dots (c1,c2) And from the bottom of the paper to the upper side goes the flow of time.


    First choice: I can go anywhere concerning that 4 dots, once I got there I have 3 choices and then I will have 2. But the trick is that the possibilities are multiplied since they are all possible and sorted in layers. What is 4x3=12x2=24 …….and here you go more than 20 scenarios decided in a few seconds.


    So if you place this in a everyday world that means: What I will do first ? Hmm, I am hungry should I go to Chinese restaurant, the McDonalds’s, Italian restaurant or I will just buy a Hot dog on that the corner. After that I can either go to see what it is in x bookstore, or drink a coffee somewhere or I can just take a walk …… and in the end I will either go home or to may fiancé’s place and see if he is at home.

  10. #390
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    The trick is in perspective, you realize that you have “layers” and you deal with priority and you plan for the fact that in the end the nigh will fall. In fact you can go to the any of the 9 dots directly as Ne would probably think but instead you can layer out the problem. What makes it easier to determine what goes first and what goes later. Plus even before you got there you know what will be the next thing you do.

    If there is too much unknowns you can easily just make contingency plans what usually in everyday life problems takes a moment. If you have 3 or 4 plans one will work or be proper for the situation.



    Of course this whole example is Te biased but the principle is Ni-ish. Te just decided how to connect. The problem with picturing of this situation is that it is too simple, the real Ni example would have at least 3 times more layers and probably even over 100 dots. But since it is this simple everyone can relate to this. Plus there maybe some perspective changes or rule braking: as going from a layer 5 to 7 and then to 6 … and only then 8. (and all of that will be decided on layer 3) Since the start time is too soon and layer 4 and 5 are too late since the details must be solved in advance instead in the moment. Bu there is not absolutes the whole approach depends on the nature of the problem and there is no Si style procedure in solving.


    And this is probably why Ni dom usually wants to stay independent since most people think only 2 or 3 steps in advance. There are some abstract long term wishes but they are not too well defined to be considered a real “layer thinking” And if you cut everything above layer 3 that is like cutting 2/3 of the Ni-dom’s personality. (at least that is how it feels) Because these plans, layers and perspectives ARE me. Without them I am no longer me.





    And then happens that a S or a P person says that we should just adept to the situation since no one can know the outcome and ……….*you know the drill* and what then happens is that hard core NJ is outnumbered pretty fast. Leaving them with only two options

    1. Retreat in order to preserve their vision and thus their personality/soul since the vision must be kept alive (even only in you) and with time you will figure out through knowledge and information how to get back on track.


    2. Gathering a small group of loyalist that are disappointed in the situation in order to spread the influence and thus the vision. Have you ever read the history? It is full of NJs that simply had to put their vision into the practice. They simply could not pretend the vision is not there …. even if the effects are monstrous.







    And now the last part – the vision.



    In its simplest form it is just play with dots a1,b3,c2,d6, ……. this is just the way or a plan how you should go through with things. Usually it is not something from everyday life but more of a “destiny” thing …. and to make things sinister it almost always says what should others do as well. Since your mission is that everything gets how it should be in the vision (you are here just to coordinate stuff). The problem is that if you focus only on yourself then the vision has a low impact and NJs try to avoid that outcome at all cost. In extreme cases you can even get people with desire to rewrite everything there is ……. and history remembers those people.


    The problem is that vision in theory can be endless. The time so far could be endless and that means that there can be infinite number of already mentioned layers. What is problematic because if it is endless then the ultimate goals is infinitely far … what means that it can’t be reached. But if can’t be reached then what is the point in going towards that goal. And then individuality comes in. ….. some people go insane , some start to drink or date , some stay as they are since they are out touch with their emotions , some decide to live like other people and what happens happens ….. etc.


    Of course the vision can be rationalized in order to make it more practical/strategic.
    For example you start to think about the object x and then how it got there and where it will end in that much time if the trends continue. Also you can predict things by knowing patters (day/night , seasons , aging , gravity ……) and inserting them into the trend so that you get a model …. and if your Ni is good what is usually the case with Ni doms you get something that it is a realistic vision of the future. And despite the odds this more of less becomes new here and now situation since the vision was correct. The details are probably off but that is it basically. The more elements is involved the bigger chance is that the summing up vision will not include everything. So some elements should be removed by knowing of patterns creating the intuitive concept/plan.


    The biggest problem with Ni is that you can’t control it. Maybe you can direct the general direction but always you will have a chaos behind your thoughts that will constantly fill you in with vision, ideas, insight …..

    What can cause a serious split in personality: you have your life and you have Ni landscape and sometimes you have serious problems when they overlap. The problem is that because of constant inner chaos you can’t be fully aware of all of your knowledge because systematization and order is pretty low.






    So as you a multiple perspective person you also start to divide yourself as person in specialized areas. Like having a mindset that is for practical stuff, for simple conversations about things, very abstract area that is basically just for you, try to get along with people mode ….. etc. But I can’t jump between those modes, I need to rewire the brain to be good in the next task if I want to be good at it. Fast changes can lead either in disaster or absurd. Like coming into bakery and saying to the girl that work there to just give you newspapers. (even if they are obviously selling only bread and rolls). So when I am out I usually try not to sink too deep into my thoughts so that it is easier to wake me up and adjust.
    Otherwise I can even walk over the road while the red is on , and not even knowing it.


    But when I am alone I can sometime detach so much that I forget my name, the fact that I have family that I have to eat ….. etc. But for that I have to be alone in a quiet place.

    All of this is exactly why I am pretty J person. I need to plan that in incoming situation I maximize the mindset I need. For example on exams I usually don’t know how to answer a single question (even the easy ones). But after a few minutes all starts to come back to me and exponentially I start to remember things. Of curse it is not always like that but before that was pretty common scenario for me. (there is no certainty of pattern that would easy the definition)






    So to answer the op question – if a person is showing a number of trait stated here plus a unusual belief system there are pretty good odds that Ni is involved.


    This is in my opinion the basic idea of how Ni works. In reality I is just more chaotic and it processes ideas faster then they can be shared.

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