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Thread: Signs of Ni

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    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I did.



    / inferior Se
    I see your rich inferior hoes and raise you a bitch pimp

    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

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    I feel a bit intrusive to interrupt your INTP-INTJ though it's nothing INFJs and INFPs aren't prone to do sometimes. Though we feelers be there is a similiar dynamic...never this prolonged though (Not polite)

    I'm just making a quick run through because I have a question from your "T" party.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post

    We don't communicate in the same way. One point I tried to make was that you trust your Ti too much. Perhaps I could have been more precise on the language - using the word "logic" vs. "Ti". This language thing is a common barrier between INTPs and INTJs. The INTPs are hung up on the right way of expressing something and the INTJ is focused on the gist of what is important. Neither perspective is wrong. You come across like you believe your way of thinking is better. You seem think that your Ti+Ne is deep and that Ni+Te is superficial. This I believe is the problem. It's not appreciating the other cognitive styles that people have and thinking yours is better.

    At least that is my perception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    INTJs are always changing the problem space, either by redefining the problem, or understanding that the problem is something else entirely. This goes along with what Uumlau wrote about staying current with changing reality.

    This is the crux of the matter. It reminds me of the static vs. dynamic interpretation of Ti/Ne vs. Ni/Te that was discussed a few pages ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    To a Ti dom inconsistencies or incomplete depictions of a system often cause what I like to call the "Ti headache": it makes us nervous and uncomfortable and causes an almost irresistable urge to say: "well, actually ...". This isn't about being a smartass nitpicker, it is about putting the universe back in order. Screw practicality, a false or misleading statement is a stain on the cosmos' crisp white cotton shirt.

    Yet another reason why language, phrasing and definitions DO matter. This is one reason why I think every debate should start with a clear definition of the terminology. It is annoying when somebody changes the rules in midplay. You start off with chess and end up playing checkers.
    Now I'm just wondering about some things. INTJs and us INFJs share Ni as dom function and while there are dissimilarities I see more similarities. It's somewhat apparent at my regular haunt at INFJs.com which has a considerable INTJ population. I find that it's actually hard to tell who is an INTJ and who's INFJ at times.

    INFJs obviously having Ti third on their functions stack means we use it at times, some INFJs very much so (I think uumlau already mentioned Wittgenstein, though I actually personally thought he referred to something more mystical in Tractatus and came to later found out that that view is definitely not widely accepted by any means, but I see it as a mystical treatise Nietzsche being a more obviously INFJy philosopher, later going full blown prophetic Zarahustra)

    I haven't noticed any INTJs mentioning anything negative about our Ti, or mentioning it at all in fact.
    We share some of the Ti "sins" of not brainstorming, using our internal logic to reach conclusions by ourselves and later emerging to "announce" something. And don't get me started on word definition. I think it's definitely a necessary "evil". ;D

    I'm also chuckling a bit to myself because If INTJs are thought to be shifty by INTPs because they change focus mid "debate" then INFJs are often called "Insincere and avoidant" by INFPs. ;D Just an observation.

    Long story short: What are your thought on Ni paired with (though 3rd on the pile) Ti as opposed to Ni with Te?


    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The ego-investment that INTPs see in INTJs appears (to me) to be reading Te as if it were Fe.
    Ego investment? Tsk tsk... I'll have you know many INFJs are buddhists and don't care much for ego-investment. It's against our religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    INFJs obviously having Ti third on their functions stack means we use it at times, some INFJs very much so (I think uumlau already mentioned Wittgenstein, though I actually personally thought he referred to something more mystical in Tractatus and came to later found out that that view is definitely not widely accepted by any means, but I see it as a mystical treatise Nietzsche being a more obviously INFJy philosopher, later going full blown prophetic Zarahustra)
    Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think uumlau brought up Wittgenstein (I don't think it was me, either), and how in the hell do you think Nietzsche is a more obviously INFJ philosopher?

    ETA: Just checked. It was @Nicodemus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    I haven't noticed any INTJs mentioning anything negative about our Ti, or mentioning it at all in fact.
    We share some of the Ti "sins" of not brainstorming, using our internal logic to reach conclusions by ourselves and later emerging to "announce" something. And don't get me started on word definition. I think it's definitely a necessary "evil". ;D
    They’re too busy fighting with your stronger and more accessible Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    I'm also chuckling a bit to myself because If INTJs are thought to be shifty by INTPs because they change focus mid "debate" then INFJs are often called "Insincere and avoidant" by INFPs. ;D Just an observation.
    This is interesting. I have two INFJs close to me, and I wouldn't characterize them as insincere at all - I view them as very deeply convicted, although in some ways I feel they can be avoidant. I mainly find myself feeling that way when I respond to their assertions/ideas with a Te based reply, and they then want to change the subject due to Fe, and when I continue to encourage breaking the idea down, they become emotional.

    *DOORSLAM*

    J/K

    Mostly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think uumlau brought up Wittgenstein (I don't think it was me, either), and how in the hell do you think Nietzsche is a more obviously INFJ philosopher?

    ETA: Just checked. It was @Nicodemus.
    A case of mistaken identity on my part. Apologies to both Nicodemus and uumlau.
    Nietzsche deals with values and isn't really a system builder (off the top of my head). He also has mystical overtones.

    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    They’re too busy fighting with your stronger and more accessible Fe.



    This is interesting. I have two INFJs close to me, and I wouldn't characterize them as insincere at all - I view them as very deeply convicted, although in some ways I feel they can be avoidant. I mainly find myself feeling that way when I respond to their assertions/ideas with a Te based reply, and they then want to change the subject due to Fe, and when I continue to encourage breaking the idea down, they become emotional.

    *DOORSLAM*

    J/K

    Mostly.

    Not the doorslam!!! :yim_rolling_on_the_
    insincere as in sometimes the Fe thing of propriety for lack of a proper word clashes with Fi as it seems to some INFPs (not the wonderfully mature and self-aware ones such as yourself) as being untrue to yourself. (Yourself being Fi from INFP perspective)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    Nietzsche deals with values and isn't really a system builder (off the top of my head). He also has mystical overtones.
    I think you have a lot to learn about typology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think you have a lot to learn about typology.
    System building:

    "Extraverted Thinking: Seeks logic and consistency in the outside world. Concern for external laws and rules."
    http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-p...-attitudes.asp

    Nietszche's call to re-evaluate all values pointing to

    "Extraverted Feeling: Seeks harmony with and between people in the outside world. Interpersonal and cultural values are important."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Reverie View Post
    System building:

    "Extraverted Thinking: Seeks logic and consistency in the outside world. Concern for external laws and rules."
    http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-p...-attitudes.asp

    Nietszche's call to re-evaluate all values pointing to

    "Extraverted Feeling: Seeks harmony with and between people in the outside world. Interpersonal and cultural values are important."

    Let me add to that: you have a lot to learn about typology and Nietzsche.

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