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Thread: Signs of Ni

  1. #241
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You know what, I have had only brief moments on the forum lately as I am renovating a house.

    (Yesterday I hopped on more between waiting for coats of paint to dry.)

    So if my question struck you as short, it's only because I have been pressed for time to engage with the content here. I asked it quickly.

    My apologies if that offended you.

    There WAS tone in the second post though because of your choice to construe the first as tone.

    So, whatever. Think whatever you want to.
    One or two more posts and you can start trolling him and continue doing so in very obvious ways(look how i trololold him earlier )for days without him realizing whats going on and just pulling some weird reasons about why you are wrong about this issue. As a nice bonus, if you do this once, you are easily able to pull him into it again and again
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    One or two more posts and you can start trolling him and continue doing so in very obvious ways(look how i trololold him earlier )for days without him realizing whats going on and just pulling some weird reasons about why you are wrong about this issue. As a nice bonus, if you do this once, you are easily able to pull him into it again and again
    This won't work for her.

    She's not a delusional idiot.

  3. #243
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    She's not a delusional idiot.
    :-----DDDD
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #244
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    Yes, I am familiar with your canned "I don't have anything substantive to say, cuz I'm clearly wrong" responses.

    As well as your delusion that you're somehow "getting me" with said idiotic responses.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes, I am familiar with your canned "I don't have anything substantive to say, cuz I'm clearly wrong" responses.

    As well as your delusion that you're somehow "getting me" with said idiotic responses.
    Hmm, could you be bit more specific?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #246
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Hmm, could you be bit more specific?
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    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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  8. #248
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Why do this? Because she's annoying me. Or, to put it in more noble language -- and just as accurate -- because I think her behavior is inappropriate. Could you call this trolling? Yes. But that wouldn't be too accurate. I consider it punishment. Despite her first post already being slightly inappropriate (specifically, in tone), I responded relatively politely, but she continued along the same path she'd attempted to engage me before (an inappropriate one), so I pushed back more heavily the next time. With this last post: three strikes and it's not trolling. It's punishment.)
    Just what did you intend to accomplish by this course of action?

    (Just curious. It looks at best akin to biting off your nose to spite your face; at worst, downright juvenile.)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Just what did you intend to accomplish by this course of action?
    A mixture of amusement and justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    (Just curious. It looks at best akin to biting off your nose to spite your face; at worst, downright juvenile.)
    As for the former, I certainly don't see it that way.

    As for the latter:


  10. #250
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I kinda disagree with this cutting things down to core essentials. INTJs seem to do a horrible job at this(have noticed it in real life and on these forums), while for INTPs the core essentials is all that matters.
    I do agree that INTJs try to see the core issue of things, but they approach it by looking at things at very superficial Te level and make Ni assumptions about the core issue from those surface level truths. This sort of approach is doomed to fail in reaching the core issue, even tho it might lead to assumptions that work, but only work at very superficial level. Naturally for INTJ it seems like they really understood the core issue, because it works on this superficial level, which is all they care about.
    INTPs on the other hand doesent tend to really care about this superficial level, but dig deep by looking at the issue from all angles and using logic to get to the core issue(opposed to seeing what makes logical sense about what is and making what ever logical or not assumptions about how these things fit together).
    This difference is really what causes most disagreements between INTJs and INTPs. INTPs looking at the core issue and because digging deep enough and because of that being able to apply these fundamentals to other things aswell seems untrusted and uncomprehensive to INTJ, because they make assumptions about the core issue based on superficial Te logic and cant see how INTP applies these core issues to other things aswell.

    Uumlau has shown this many times on this topic(and in other topics aswell) by making totally false assumptions about INTPs. Like this INTPs being so focused on perceived logical consistency that they stop listening and therefore interrupt. While in reality its not that we arent listening and are only focused on logic, its just that we ALSO focus on logic and are quick to see if what the other person is making illogical statements(or it just seems like it because the other person is leaving something essential out), so we ask for clarification in order to see the logic in what the other person says. And if there is no logic in what the other person talks about(assuming we are discussing about something where it matters, like science), its better that the other person realizes the logical mistake instead of talking bullshit for an hour, because if there is one fundamental mistake in logic, there is usually more than that one coming. Now lets assume that someone talks about how fairies used to rule the earth 10 years ago, and ill let him talk for an hour and at that time notice 43 logical mistakes. In order to point out these mistakes in logic, i would have to write them all down, so that i would be able to point them out and explain them later.
    Also in my experience INTJs are way worse at interrupting and whats worse, INTJs interrupt because they dont see something as relevant and dont give a chance for me to explain what it has to do with it..
    INTJs interrupt you because they are impatient and want you to get to the point.

    I must say that I completely disagree with almost your entire post. First, you rely entirely too much on logic. It's your cognitive bias and you don't seem to understand the limitations of it. With respect to getting to the "core" of things - INTJs are all about the core issues. They constantly search for them. It's what they do. Understand the largest possible big picture, distilling an every a large number of data points about it and then generate insights based on that. I have absolutely no idea how you can justify such nonsense - bad job on core issues? It's laughable.

    From a practical standpoint, I work with a lot of INTPs and find that they bring a perspective that I do not. They can be more flexible in their thinking than I am on the fly. They can be more facilitative. They bring up important things to consider and options. Are they as effective as getting to the heart of the matter and making a choice on actions? Generally no. I don't see it so often because they have such a difficult time making up their minds. It also can be frustrating because I feel like sometimes they are not actively listening. That is, they don't acknowledge the points of others who are communicating.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I dont agree with this at all. For INTP the problem space is different to INTJ. For INTP the solution may be something outside the problem space, while INTJ tends to look solution only from the problem. So there is no need to change the problem space in order to find an solution outside of it or to switch the problem spaces. You need to remember that INTJs perceive external world via Se, while INTPs use Ne for that.



    This currently known version of reality is the key here. INTPs only accept one version of reality, but this version of reality is unknown. INTJs on the other hand claim to know the reality, even tho its just their version of the reality, not the real reality. Reality doesent change, only the perception of it does. The perception of reality isnt same as the reality, even tho INTJs see it as so and make the judgments(and the big picture based on them) based on the perception of reality and see it as the real reality. This is why INTJ approach seems ridiculously superficial to INTP. This superficial reality really is the perception of what is and analysis what it is(in other words SeTe), INTPs can instantly see that this isnt the reality if it doesent make logical sense compared to the core issue seen by NeTi. However, when it does, its most likely something the INTP didnt think before, at least from that perspective and can be useful.
    So much gobbledegook. I know INTPs understand detail and complexity very well but you get into too much detail when you explain things. Sometimes the thing that is the most profound is the thing that is communicated most concisely.

    INTJs tend to shift the discussion to whether or not the right question is being asked or problem being addressed. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Most times, it seems not and they can help guide the discussion to a result that is more effective. INTPs can do extremely well getting people to feel like they are part of a process but the end results are generally not as good as they should be because they are more focused on process rather than product.

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